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WCI Chairman Nik Clark and Madison Police Chief Noble Wray on Wisconsin Eye

BROKENSPROKET

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Trempealeau County
Vicki McKenna mentioned something rather interesting at Culvers last Saturday night. She said that some of the inside chatter is that the Chief and Mayor do not see eye to eye and that the Chief is actually a good guy and wants the city to lose so that he doesn't have to go against the Mayor, who has the power to fire him.

You would have to ask her for more details.

I think there may be something to that. When I watch the show, I get the feeling that Wray is a puppet. IF it were HIS true agenda, he would be more eloborate/articulate(like Nick). Instead he keeps going over certian talking points that he has been coached on. It kinda reminds me of some of Palin's early presidential campaign interviews. If a person has been coached what to say, but don't really have a conviction about it, one can sense that. And maybe the Mayor is not the one putting the pressure on him, but the Police and Fire Comission.
 
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TyGuy

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Come to think about it let's use another example of our theater goer.

Let's say he was at an abortion protest before he decided to watch the movie. Although the protesters were loud, boisterous, and created a disturbance that others didn't like they were engaged in constitutionaly protected behavior. As soon as that person used his speech in a manner he intended to cause a ruccus in the theater the protection was lost.

Like many other laws more weight should be given to the intent of the suspect than the feelings of others.
I like that, may I use it?
 

joejoejoe

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The chief is clearly trying to cover his own ass in this. I really like the professor bringing up the idea of a heckler stripping a man of their free speech. I applaud you guys. PLEASE make national news with a positive outcome for this!

Joe~
 

qball54208

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Come to think about it let's use another example of our theater goer.

Let's say he was at an abortion protest before he decided to watch the movie. Although the protesters were loud, boisterous, and created a disturbance that others didn't like they were engaged in constitutionaly protected behavior. As soon as that person used his speech in a manner he intended to cause a ruccus in the theater the protection was lost.

Like many other laws more weight should be given to the intent of the suspect than the feelings of others.

AHHH HAAA! You're getting warmer! Just look at the history of DC then you will see, for the forest through the trees.
DC Laws were constructed in British Common Law, which as you know where Modern Day Policing got it's roots from. Further more, the intent to apply DC is for LEO to keep peace, where there is discord in order to "control" a situation, group/s of people and so on.
In my observation here, there is a whole lot of Subjective thinking, I'm not scared to share that observation. However, if this movement is to be successful, there needs to be an OBJECTIVE approach. That I am afraid may come up through the Lower Courts via the Appeals process through the 7th Dist.
Watch an wait, this is yet just the beginning.
 

qball54208

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Come to think about it let's use another example of our theater goer.

Let's say he was at an abortion protest before he decided to watch the movie. Although the protesters were loud, boisterous, and created a disturbance that others didn't like they were engaged in constitutionaly protected behavior. As soon as that person used his speech in a manner he intended to cause a ruccus in the theater the protection was lost.

Like many other laws more weight should be given to the intent of the suspect than the feelings of others.
A persons right to protest, a tire iron being used to change a tire at the road side and an individual with a pocket knife?
ALL LAWFUL ACTIVITIES !
Until you introduce one and ONLY one of the elements of DC (which in itself is vague) BAM! You just got a DC charge.
 

Brass Magnet

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A persons right to protest, a tire iron being used to change a tire at the road side and an individual with a pocket knife?
ALL LAWFUL ACTIVITIES !
Until you introduce one and ONLY one of the elements of DC (which in itself is vague) BAM! You just got a DC charge.

Let me try putting this a different way. I totally agree that the statute is extremely vague, however, it doesn't matter when a statute runs afoul of the supreme law of the land. Both the state and federal constitutions "out rank" the statute. If they insist on using DC and none of the illegal conditions I listed above exist, it will be unconstitutional as applied.

In other words you CAN NOT look only at the statute in a vaccum. As Chief Wray would say, we must look at the totality of circumstances which include the constitutions.
 

suntzu

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M

McX

Guest
The truth

The most important point to remember when
involved with subjects who are openly carrying
firearms in non-prohibited places is that if they
comply with the law, they are exercising their
constitutional right. No matter how concerned
citizens may become and no matter what an
officer’s personal or professional opinion is, these
people can do what they are doing. If the subjects
are on private property and the property owners or
their representatives do not object or have not
posted notices prohibiting firearms, the subjects
are complying with the law.
 

Nanook

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Oct 3, 2010
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Alaska
Nik:

Being a resident of Alaska, with our very successful Constitutional Carry laws, I am a bit bemused by all the controversy this is causing in your state, but your efforts to normalize the carriage of firearms in the mind of the public will eventually bear rich fruit. Keep up the good work.

One tack that I think you might wish to take if you ever debate the Chief on this issue again: Referring to WI SC opinion State v Schwebke, as referenced in the AG's memo, I would challenge the Chief to clarify which element of disorderly conduct the OC'ers were violating. Since they were not "violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud ", then they must have been guilty of "otherwise disorderly conduct."

I would then ask the Chief how a reasonable person would be able to know exactly what would constitute "otherwise disorderly conduct". Essentially, I would challenge this provision as being unconstitutionally vague, as "otherwise disorderly conduct" would seem to essentially mean whatever the officer capriciously and arbitrarily decided it should mean.

If you wanted to hit a bit below the belt, you could ask the Chief if he feels the actions of the Montgomery, AL PD were justified in 1955 when they used an essentially identical rationale to support the issuance of a disorderly conduct citation to Rosa Parks, who was clearly not being "violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, [or] unreasonably loud " when she organized the Bus Boycott.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother!
 
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qball54208

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GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
Qball,
Check out the link in this thread. This nearly exactly what I am talking about: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?81455-Great-read.
Yes that is a very good read. However, there is a problem, WI LEO DEPT probably have not put out a guide like MI has.
It is what you are talking about, unfortunately, portions of it do not apply to WI.
Like the Professor stated in the interview, more will come up through the Lower Courts and a few Appeals that are coming through the 7TH Dist Court of Appeals.
 

protias

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SE, WI
Nik,

Were you issued a DC ticket for being armed during the interview? ...I didn't think so.

Noble Wray is a hypocrite!
 

The Don

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in your pants
Nik,

Were you issued a DC ticket for being armed during the interview? ...I didn't think so.

Noble Wray is a hypocrite!

Well, nobody made a 911 call to ask if it was legal, so the "totality of circumstances" clearly didn't necessitate a DC ticket.
 

protias

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Well, nobody made a 911 call to ask if it was legal, so the "totality of circumstances" clearly didn't necessitate a DC ticket.
fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg


:p
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

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Nik,

Were you issued a DC ticket for being armed during the interview? ...I didn't think so.

Noble Wray is a hypocrite!

Chief Wray's stance is that because they don't arrest EVERYONE who open-carries, he is supporting constitutional rights.

Problem is no one other than MPD themselves ever knows who's rights will be respected and who's rights won't.

Its the ultimate insult to constitutional rights. Arbitrary and capricious.
 
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