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Thread: 133 Days A Year You Could Be A Criminal For OC'ing

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    133 Days A Year You Could Be A Criminal For OC'ing

    [The title of this thread is wrong, I overlapped some of the seasons and came up with the wrong number of days, should be 114 days. Sorry for the error.]
    Well here it is, as many of you know the DNR has graciously given 10 and 11 yr. olds permission to hunt under their new mentor program. I decided to take my 10 yr. old hunting and was checking the 2010 hunting regs. and found some disturbing news. While looking for the rules regarding the mentor program on page 12 of the regs. it says "Only ONE firearm, bow or crossbow [if eligible for a crossbow permit] can be POSSESSED JOINTLY between the hunter and mentor..." If I read this correct I would be a criminal to oc while taking my 10 yr. old hunting.
    This year a 10 or 11 yr. old can hunt the following:
    Archery sept. 18-nov.18
    nov.29-jan. 9
    Youth hunt- oct. 9-10
    Doe only- oct. 14-17
    Gun deer- nov. 20-28
    Muzzleloader nov. 29-dec. 8
    Total 114 days
    I realize some might think I am nit picking but I am cautious when it comes to the DNR, after all can't we thank them for the restrictions on vehicle carry?
    Last edited by johnny amish; 10-14-2010 at 06:42 AM.

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    Well here it is, as many of you know the DNR has graciously given 10 and 11 yr. olds permission to hunt under their new mentor program. I decided to take my 10 yr. old hunting and was checking the 2010 hunting regs. and found some disturbing news. While looking for the rules regarding the mentor program on page 12 of the regs. it says "Only ONE firearm, bow or crossbow [if eligible for a crossbow permit] can be POSSESSED JOINTLY between the hunter and mentor..." If I read this correct I would be a criminal to oc while taking my 10 yr. old hunting.
    This year a 10 or 11 yr. old can hunt the following:
    Archery sept. 18-nov.18
    nov.29-jan. 9
    Youth hunt- oct. 9-10
    Doe only- oct. 14-17
    Gun deer- nov. 20-28
    Muzzleloader nov. 29-dec. 8
    Total 133 days
    I realize some might think I am nit picking but I am cautious when it comes to the DNR, after all can't we thank them for the restrictions on vehicle carry?
    Time to start calling the DNR and protesting. There should be an exception for handguns for sure. I know the point behind their reasoning but that's typical "we know better than you" government BS.

    The same bad apple that would use his pistol to shoot a deer instead of letting his child shoot the deer can still just take the rifle from the child and shoot anyway. Total BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    Time to start calling the DNR and protesting. There should be an exception for handguns for sure. I know the point behind their reasoning but that's typical "we know better than you" government BS.

    The same bad apple that would use his pistol to shoot a deer instead of letting his child shoot the deer can still just take the rifle from the child and shoot anyway. Total BS.
    A couple of months ago, I sent an email to the Head Training Warden about this same issue - one gun/bow between mentor and mentee. This warden responded with a phone call and the gist of it was that their decision to do this was based on safety. Of course, I disagreed with his explanation and told him so. He then went to a "fall-back" position which was essentially that if want to mentor someone, then I have given up my "right" to defend myself. It was my choice. I then pointed out to him that the DNR's position from my point of view will reduce mentorship and ultimately have a detrimental affect on the DNR and hunting. It will eventually be their loss. He said that if I wanted it changed, that I should petition my state representative to launch legislation to allow more than one person to carry a weapon. And, such legislation wouldn't be coming from him.

    His opinions were not supported by fact, which is usual and customary for administrative decisions.

    (I think I also responded to this issue a while back on this forum.)
    Found it
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...93#post1352793 Post #214
    Last edited by phred; 10-13-2010 at 07:23 PM. Reason: See: Found it

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    A couple of months ago, I sent an email to the Head Training Warden about this same issue - one gun/bow between mentor and mentee. This warden responded with a phone call and the gist of it was that their decision to do this was based on safety. Of course, I disagreed with his explanation and told him so. He then went to a "fall-back" position which was essentially that if want to mentor someone, then I have given up my "right" to defend myself. It was my choice. I then pointed out to him that the DNR's position from my point of view will reduce mentorship and ultimately have a detrimental affect on the DNR and hunting. It will eventually be their loss. He said that if I wanted it changed, that I should petition my state representative to launch legislation to allow more than one person to carry a weapon. And, such legislation wouldn't be coming from him.

    His opinions were not supported by fact, which is usual and customary for administrative decisions.

    (I think I also responded to this issue a while back on this forum.)
    Sounds pretty typical of the DNR - still though with enough ringing phones in Walker's office (on this and other issues of course) we can bring some attention to it.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    Sounds pretty typical of the DNR - still though with enough ringing phones in Walker's office (on this and other issues of course) we can bring some attention to it.
    Any rule or reg pushed out by a state agency can be changed by the legislature. All it takes is one legislator to introduce change language and a push by members of organizations such as this. State agencies don't like a spotlight on their operations.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    This year a 10 or 11 yr. old can hunt the following:
    Archery sept. 18-nov.18
    nov.29-jan. 9
    Youth hunt- oct. 9-10
    Doe only- oct. 14-17
    Gun deer- nov. 20-28
    Muzzleloader nov. 29-dec. 8
    Total 133 days
    I realize some might think I am nit picking but I am cautious when it comes to the DNR, after all can't we thank them for the restrictions on vehicle carry?
    To add to the nitpicking how do you come up with 133 days. From Sept. 18 until Jan. 9 is only 114 days from my count.

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    Well, there go separation of powers, judicial from legislative from administration, out the window.

    Northeast Wisconsin Technical College is an appointed agency with taxation power that charges us Islanders $600 per capita, ~US$500K a^-1, to fund a school that we have sent a half-dozen students.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    To add to the nitpicking how do you come up with 133 days. From Sept. 18 until Jan. 9 is only 114 days from my count.
    I may have overlapped a couple of the seasons, my bad. It gets a little confusing with all the different seasons, zones etc... My point is sometimes it feels like the DNR wants to make criminals out of us. It is difficult to keep up with the changes from year to year.

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    It also says that no gun may have a shorter barrel than 5.5" and be used for hunting. So I would think that they would give you the benefit of the doubt if it was under 5.5"

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    bhancock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane28 View Post
    It also says that no gun may have a shorter barrel than 5.5" and be used for hunting. So I would think that they would give you the benefit of the doubt if it was under 5.5"
    This one has actually gone through my mind and my take is they would probably cite for hunting with and improper or illegal firearm. I have been fairly concerned about the overlap of OC'ing and hunting. Also if that sidearm is loaded after hunting hours, what then, even if your rifle is unloaded?

    This needs some attention asap.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    I may have overlapped a couple of the seasons, my bad. It gets a little confusing with all the different seasons, zones etc... My point is sometimes it feels like the DNR wants to make criminals out of us. It is difficult to keep up with the changes from year to year.
    Seems like it's about time to get rid of all these "something for everyone" deer seasons and return to one traditional gun and one bow season. The DNR is only interested in killing off every deer in the southern third of the state while making as money as they can from it. The wolves have pretty much eliminated the deer in the northern third.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    bhancock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Seems like it's about time to get rid of all these "something for everyone" deer seasons and return to one traditional gun and one bow season......
    +1

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    I sure hope that someone somewhere has all these laws that conflict with each other written down on a list somewhere ready to hand to some state legislator who is will to put forth the effort to change what needs to be changed.
    I had to change my signature because you know who got upset about it.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    What if we go for a walk while oc'ing during deer season? We don't want to hunt just enjoy nature. As I see it we could recieve two tickets just for starters, one for hunting without their permission [license] and two, hunting with firearm that has to short a barrel.

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    Regular Member Canard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    What if we go for a walk while oc'ing during deer season? We don't want to hunt just enjoy nature. As I see it we could recieve two tickets just for starters, one for hunting without their permission [license] and two, hunting with firearm that has to short a barrel.
    By that standard they could theoretically charge you with hunting out of season while walking through town OCing in July. This is where the state needs to set the standard for 2a priority over foolishness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    The wolves have pretty much eliminated the deer in the northern third.
    I was surprised when I was told that the elk herd (harem actually) I was watching, in Colorado recently, has CWD. I asked why the α-female had a radio tracking collar.

    CWD, prionic disease, will not likely be eliminated until all 'infected' herds and individuals are eliminated, certainly the communicating populations.

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    And, don't forget this gem from the Department of Never-ending Regulations:

    It is illegal to:
    • possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
    the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
    shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
    and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during
    open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
    turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Seems like it's about time to get rid of all these "something for everyone" deer seasons and return to one traditional gun and one bow season. The DNR is only interested in killing off every deer in the southern third of the state while making as money as they can from it. The wolves have pretty much eliminated the deer in the northern third.
    I don't buy the "wolves" BS in the north. You know what happened - we had two seasons a few years ago where extra doe tags in any zone were $2 a piece. I know guys that for those seasons went out and harvested 8-12 does in on season alone. Now those same guys were b1tching last year that there were no deer.

    Now remembering that last year was wet during gun season and the farmers didn't get a lot of corn harvested and ON TOP of that we had irresponsible hunting in years previous - well yeah you idiots of course you didn't see many deer!

    I'm not a fan of the DNR by any means but I think we have to look at responsible hunting first before blaming wolves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    I was surprised when I was told that the elk herd (harem actually) I was watching, in Colorado recently, has CWD. I asked why the α-female had a radio tracking collar.

    CWD, prionic disease, will not likely be eliminated until all 'infected' herds and individuals are eliminated, certainly the communicating populations.
    colorado had cwd first , as did alberta , and many other places , the primary difference being that wisconsin especaily in suburban fringes has/had a signifigantly higher concentration of deer the dnr claimed as many as 70 per square mile , i feel primarily because of all the 3-5 acer lots with a wooded patch here and there and no hunting of any of it, these are generaly the first people to be out buying the spray or deer netting ect... to keep the deer from eating their ornamentals and flower gardens , when what they need is a few good cautios hunters bow or gun if done right it can be safe.

    these are now the only areas left of my area in south central wisconsin that seem to have much of any deer left , that and places with larger tracks of land that practice the quality buck managment or have no hunting allowed at all.

    the issue of unlimited tags ,couple that with a recetion , plenty of layed off hunters, sure is working to reduce the herd in any area that hunters can get into the herd in green county is at a near record low.

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    that is very true about responsible hunting i have that same circumstance in my family they all shot 6-7 -8 doe a peice ( 8 guys)for the last 3-4 years most of which were only about 100lbs and now they all piss and moan about not seeing any deer when all along my dad and myself have been telling them they need to hunt right and have some kind of size limit to consider shooting it i have just about given up on hunting all together over all the dept of never ending regulations BS and my family of course

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    clear lines that if you carry a firearm not legal for hunting as a self defence gun that you can't be charged with hunting with a firearm to short ect..

    and one could make the argument that your hunting for unprotected species like coyote, if still out after dark durring deer season with a loaded gun, at least in the southern half of the state.

    this is part of why inorder to get charges to hold they get people to shoot robo deer , because it can be argued that untill you shoot at a deer your not hunting for them , walking around with a back tag could be considered deer hunting but since i see kids were thier coats with back tags to school, people doing chores and other things incliding sighting in at thier home range on the farm and they are clearly not hunting , that by itself is not enough to be sure that they are hunting.


    but i think your forgetting about bird seasons , any one hunting for water fowl , pheasants or other birds can not have in their possetion a cartrige containing a single projectile even though the 44 in your revolver while your grouse hunting with your shotgun was clearly not intended for the grouse the law does not read that way.
    Last edited by GreenCountyPete; 10-14-2010 at 10:31 AM.

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    that is very true about responsible hunting i have that same circumstance in my family they all shot 6-7 -8 doe a peice ( 8 guys)for the last 3-4 years most of which were only about 100lbs and now they all piss and moan about not seeing any deer when all along my dad and myself have been telling them they need to hunt right and have some kind of size limit to consider shooting it i have just about given up on hunting all together over all the dept of never ending regulations BS and my family of course
    Yep - and now we have seasons like this year where I had to sit online and refresh my web browser to buy one of the 375 doe tags available for our zone.

    I have no problem with anyone shooting a couple deer and don't believe that size should come into play like it does with fishing (bambies taste great anyway!). But if we as hunters don't act responsible onto our sport then it gives the government just one more reason for more regulations and taxes.

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    anmut i think you misunderstood my unclear words i dont want to see a regulated size to be able to shoot deer i was meaning we should each hold ourselves up to a higher standard and only shoot an adult deer or two not a bunch of yearlings there is some truth to the saying if you kill 1 yearling doe you kill 2 to 3 deer that would of been adult deer in a few years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post

    CWD, prionic disease, will not likely be eliminated until all 'infected' herds and individuals are eliminated, certainly the communicating populations.
    Time to break out the sharpshooters at $400 a pop. (page 25)

    http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/...CWD_15plan.pdf

    The DNR Madison decision makers consist of bureaucrats that have a college degree in "enviromental science" and spend 8 hours M-F in a cubicle.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Federal employees used to do it.

    1965 I was fishing in the BLM Black Canyon of the Gunnison district when the district manager parked above a meadow, laid his scoped rifle on the hood of the Bronco and thinned the herd for the approaching mule train to pack out.

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