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Thread: Email from Costco tonight..

  1. #1
    Regular Member mparramore's Avatar
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    Email from Costco tonight..

    So I get this...
    Dear Valued Costco Member:

    You may be asking why Costco is engaged in what appears to be a political issue for the first time in our 27 years doing business here. We view this as an issue that transcends politics. One of our guiding principles is to stand up for the rights of our members and consumers in general. We have been fighting for reform of our outmoded liquor laws for many years. Today you have the opportunity to rid the state of inefficiency and waste, and Costco can bring you the choice and value you deserve. Liquor privatization works in 32 other states. Why not here?

    So I sent them an email back..
    One of our guiding principles is to stand up for the rights of our members and consumers in general...
    How about standing for our rights of the constitution? The 2nd amendment says that we have the right to bear arms. Why don't you support that? You say it's for the safety of the members. We as law abiding citizens use this right to protect ourselves and family. Obviously, Costco believes that this right should be taken away. Washington State Gun rights group thanks Costco for supporting them on not allowing law abiding citizens into Costco open carrying and conceal carrying. Do you think that a criminal with the intent to rob Costco is going to follow this rule? Absolutely not.
    So sending me emails stating that Costco's guiding principle is to stand up for the rights of our members is crap. I am a member there who is standing up for my right? I will not shop there anymore nor will my family. I will pass this on to other forums that support the 2nd Amendment.

    Well, this may not be to investor relations dept. but maybe getting more emails and calls from citizen from all angles help.


    Please dont kill me...
    Last edited by mparramore; 10-20-2010 at 12:22 AM.
    This is my safety

  2. #2
    Regular Member dizzle2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mparramore View Post
    So I get this...
    Dear Valued Costco Member:

    You may be asking why Costco is engaged in what appears to be a political issue for the first time in our 27 years doing business here. We view this as an issue that transcends politics. One of our guiding principles is to stand up for the rights of our members and consumers in general. We have been fighting for reform of our outmoded liquor laws for many years. Today you have the opportunity to rid the state of inefficiency and waste, and Costco can bring you the choice and value you deserve. Liquor privatization works in 32 other states. Why not here?

    So I sent them an email back..
    One of our guiding principles is to stand up for the rights of our members and consumers in general...
    How about standing for our rights of the constitution? The 2nd amendment says that we have the right to bear arms. Why don't you support that? You say it's for the safety of the members. We as law abiding citizens use this right to protect ourselves and family. Obviously, Costco believes that this right should be taken away. Washington State Gun rights group thanks Costco for supporting them on not allowing law abiding citizens into Costco open carrying and conceal carrying. Do you think that a criminal with the intent to rob Costco is going to follow this rule? Absolutely not.
    So sending me emails stating that Costco's guiding principle is to stand up for the rights of our members is crap. I am a member there who is standing up for my right? I will not shop there anymore nor will my family. I will pass this on to other forums that support the 2nd Amendment.

    Well, this may not be to investor relations dept. but maybe getting more emails and calls from citizen from all angles help.


    Please dont kill me...
    damn shame. I LOVE Costco. I wasn't aware they weren't gun friendly ...

  3. #3
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    You do know that Amendment II doesn't apply on private property, right?

    I mean, if Costco was specifically promoting an anti 2nd Amendment rights agenda, that would be one thing, but they are setting rules for conduct on their private property. You've got no right to be there, only license. You've got no right to carry there, only license to, if they choose to grant it, which they have not, which is their right.

    This is not a case of one right versus another. It's a case of a right (private property) which clearly trumps your desire to be licensed by them to carry a gun on their private property.
    Last edited by deanf; 10-20-2010 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    What a freaking joke. Costco will never get a dime out of me. They say what they think you want here during the time they need you the most. It's all about money, and unfortunately for them, they aren't getting my money.

    Joe~

  5. #5
    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    You do know that Amendment II doesn't apply on private property, right?

    I mean, if Costco was specifically promoting an anti 2nd Amendment rights agenda, that would be one thing, but they are setting rules for conduct on their private property. You've go no right to be there, only license. You've got no right to carry there, only license to, if they choose to grant it, which they have not, which is their right.

    This is not a case of one right versus another. It's a case of a right (private property) which clearly trumps your desire to be licensed by them to carry a gun on their private property.
    That was one of the best posts I've read today.

    Thank you for putting that in perspective.
    Squeak!

  6. #6
    Regular Member WinchesterModel12's Avatar
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    Sam's club is better than costco
    If guns kill people......then all of mine are defective........ UNCLE TED

  7. #7
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    You do know that Amendment II doesn't apply on private property, right?

    I mean, if Costco was specifically promoting an anti 2nd Amendment rights agenda, that would be one thing, but they are setting rules for conduct on their private property. You've got no right to be there, only license. You've got no right to carry there, only license to, if they choose to grant it, which they have not, which is their right.

    This is not a case of one right versus another. It's a case of a right (private property) which clearly trumps your desire to be licensed by them to carry a gun on their private property.
    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    That was one of the best posts I've read today.
    Thank you for putting that in perspective.
    You’re very wrong on that. As a person endowed by my creator with certain rights, I don’t maintain or deny them depending on where my feet happen to be at any given moment. I have the exact same rights inside a Costco as I do in my own home.

    So the question isn’t whether or not my rights apply on private property (because they still do) but whether or not my rights are respected by the private property owner. Yes, I have to comply with the wishes of the property owner with respect to my civil rights, but my rights do not cease to exist at the threshold.

    You might argue that it’s semantics, but you would be wrong. How often do we bristle when some liberal reporter makes the statement that the “constitution gives you the right to_______”. Do you understand the difference between the constitution giving you a right and it merely expressing a right that preexists? Likewise, to make the claim that your rights, any of them, don’t apply on private property is just as wrong; they exist regardless of specific physical location.

    Back on topic: The email in the OP only demonstrates their hypocrisy and disrespect for the recipient. They are not at all concerned with rights or customer safety; their concern is for profit (as any good business would). Their claimed guiding principle notwithstanding, their principle is profit and nothing more. They’ll happily jump on the ‘rights’ bandwagon to push the legislation, but do you really think they are taking this side in the debate because they care about your rights or because it will allow them another product from which to profit?
    Last edited by Mainsail; 10-20-2010 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    What a freaking joke. Costco will never get a dime out of me. They say what they think you want here during the time they need you the most. It's all about money, and unfortunately for them, they aren't getting my money.

    Joe~
    Joe, of course it's about the money... Why is that a bad thing? This isn't the first time you've said this. It's a business, why wouldn't it be about the money?

    For everyone else, just carry concealed in Costco. What's the big deal. I'm sure most of us do this in some instances anyway...

    I have a family member that is one of the executives at Costco and she knows I carry there. I've expressed my opinions about Costco's policies on carrying guns and have actually gotten through to her. She sees the reasoning behind how signs won't keep criminals from possibly bringing a gun in anyway.
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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Very accurately stated, Mainsail.

    The government does not grant us rights; the Constitution does not grant us rights; property owners do not grant us rights. We are, "endowed by our Creator" with rights. No one but our Creator (whatever that means to you) can take our rights away.

    Property owners make rules, but they do not take away our rights. We have a choice. We can either enter the property, or chose not to enter. If we choose to enter, we have another choice. We can choose to follow the owner's rules, or not (CC). If we choose not to follow the rules, we may have to suffer the consequences (be trespassed or evicted).

    However, our rights still exist.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    Joe, of course it's about the money... Why is that a bad thing? This isn't the first time you've said this. It's a business, why wouldn't it be about the money?

    For everyone else, just carry concealed in Costco. What's the big deal. I'm sure most of us do this in some instances anyway...

    I have a family member that is one of the executives at Costco and she knows I carry there. I've expressed my opinions about Costco's policies on carrying guns and have actually gotten through to her. She sees the reasoning behind how signs won't keep criminals from possibly bringing a gun in anyway.
    The problem with this policy is that you are financially supporting a business that does not respect your civil rights. Further, they do not post their policy on their door, so they find it acceptable to humiliate a customer who inadvertently violates their gun policy. Costco’s secret no-gun policy has resulted in the death of one man so far: http://www.usma1994.com/classnews.aspx?newsid=16

    They will never receive my support.

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    The problem with this policy is that you are financially supporting a business that does not respect your civil rights. Further, they do not post their policy on their door, so they find it acceptable to humiliate a customer who inadvertently violates their gun policy. Costco’s secret no-gun policy has resulted in the death of one man so far: http://www.usma1994.com/classnews.aspx?newsid=16

    They will never receive my support.
    Wow. I didn't know about that story. I guess Costco not only wants its members unarmed against criminals but also kills off any that are able to defend themselves.

    I'm so glad I never got a membership from them. I'd rather pay Albertsons and Walmart prices than financially support a horrible organisation like Costco.



    Costco makes me think of a saying by Chris Rock.
    "Never go to parties with metal detectors. Sure it feels safe inside, but what about all of those n*****s outside with guns? They know you ain't got one."
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 10-20-2010 at 01:32 PM.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

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    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    Is it your position that there can be no such things as rights in the absence of a "creator?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    Very accurately stated, Mainsail.

    The government does not grant us rights; the Constitution does not grant us rights; property owners do not grant us rights. We are, "endowed by our Creator" with rights. No one but our Creator (whatever that means to you) can take our rights away.
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    Is it your position that there can be no such things as rights in the absence of a "creator?"
    I believe that that is for those who have a religion with a creator. For those who do not have religion or have a religion without a creator then you may believe differently. For me, my rights have always been. They were not given to me by anyone or anything, they just have always been and always will be. though I don't take issue with those who believe differently stating their beliefs in their comments. I know that I may believe differently, but it is one of their rights and mine to believe differently.
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 10-20-2010 at 01:42 PM.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    The problem is that reality is whatever it is completely independent of what you, I, or anyone else believes. There either is a creator, or not; our beliefs and opinions on the point are irrelevant. Which brings us back to my original question.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I believe that that is for those who have a religion with a creator. For those who do not have religion or have a religion without a creator then you may believe differently. For me, my rights have always been. They were not given to me by anyone or anything, they just have always been and always will be. though I don't take issue with those who believe differently stating their beliefs in their comments. I know that I may believe differently, but it is one of their rights and mine to believe differently.
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

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    Regular Member knight_308's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I believe that that is for those who have a religion with a creator. For those who do not have religion or have a religion without a creator then you may believe differently. For me, my rights have always been. They were not given to me by anyone or anything, they just have always been and always will be. though I don't take issue with those who believe differently stating their beliefs in their comments. I know that I may believe differently, but it is one of their rights and mine to believe differently.
    It still applies even if your creator is "random chance organization of amino acids". It has to do with the very nature of humanity.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    Is it your position that there can be no such things as rights in the absence of a "creator?"
    I suppose, Bob, that if you as a lawyer could successfully argue to the satisfaction of the majority that there is no "Creator", that each and every person's idea of "Creator" is incorrect, then you could rewrite the Declaration of Independence, as President Obama has done on several occasions, and simply eliminate that phrase. You are free to do so. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue with the thread while disregarding your meaningless attempt to derail the conversation.

    http://tinyurl.com/2dmnq9q

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I suppose, Bob, that if you as a lawyer could successfully argue to the satisfaction of the majority that there is no "Creator", that each and every person's idea of "Creator" is incorrect, then you could rewrite the Declaration of Independence, as President Obama has done on several occasions, and simply eliminate that phrase. You are free to do so. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue with the thread while disregarding your meaningless attempt to derail the conversation.

    http://tinyurl.com/2dmnq9q
    My creator is my parents, who endowed me through American birth with the natural human rights we have constitutionally guarded.

    Simple enough.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    My creator is my parents, who endowed me through American birth with the natural human rights we have constitutionally guarded.

    Simple enough.
    Excellent!

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    Is it your position that there can be no such things as rights in the absence of a "creator?"
    It is mine, as well as the framers of the Constitution, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJacque View Post
    It is mine, as well as the framers of the Constitution, of course.
    May the Flying Spagetti Monster touch you with his noodly appendage. RAmen.

  21. #21
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I don't think that this was supposed to be a religious topic... Can we maybe get off of the off topic?
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    Just asking a question that was directly on point with a prior post - didn't mean to whip people into a tizzy. Sorry if I offended.
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

  23. #23
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    Just asking a question that was directly on point with a prior post - didn't mean to whip people into a tizzy. Sorry if I offended.
    My first reply to you was trying to diffuse the situation before it got to where it is now. I know that religion is a hot topic and that people can become very angry very quickly about it. Especially when people start to bring in the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and such...
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 10-20-2010 at 04:33 PM.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    Just asking a question that was directly on point with a prior post - didn't mean to whip people into a tizzy. Sorry if I offended.
    No offense taken. Now, back to the conversation.

    Many decisions in life can be made by analyzing the risk versus reward of each option. The reward of OC or CC is the ability to protect the lives of you and your loved ones. The risk, as far as carrying in Costco is concerned, is being asked to leave, and possibly losing your membership. In this case the reward far outweighs the risk.

    On the other hand, the risk of carrying into a post office might become a legal issue if caught. IANAL, but if I recall correctly, the penalty for doing so is a $50 fine, and/or 90 days (please correct me if I am mistaken) which would probably be suspended for a first time offender.

    Risk versus reward. Life is about choices.

    Edit to add: Wait, I think I've found it. 39 CFR 232.1

    Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
    regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
    control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or
    imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both
    . Nothing contained in
    these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other
    Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations
    applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

    Last edited by Ajetpilot; 10-20-2010 at 05:02 PM.

  25. #25
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    Costco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    The problem with this policy is that you are financially supporting a business that does not respect your civil rights. Further, they do not post their policy on their door, so they find it acceptable to humiliate a customer who inadvertently violates their gun policy. Costco’s secret no-gun policy has resulted in the death of one man so far: http://www.usma1994.com/classnews.aspx?newsid=16

    They will never receive my support.
    In this case, my beef is not with Costco, but with those who responded to the 911 call. Unbelievable if accurate. Costco has rights too.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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