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Thread: Some of You Are Not Gonna Like This...

  1. #1
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    Some of You Are Not Gonna Like This...

    I hate to be the bringer of bad news but if anyone here is capable of it then I guess its me.

    I got an email this morning which confirms what I heard a few days ago from an insider in the republican party who is telling me that we will definitely be getting permitting and mandated training, the details are being hammered out now through phone calls and meetings.

    The good news is that we get reciprocal carry between permitted states and some form of castle doctrine which we will know more about later. Personally I would persue the legislators on castle doctrine more than anything else at this time to not only include your home and vehicle but also your physical body wherever you happen to be. It should also have a provision to exclude further civil liability and lawsuits from the family and victim after the shooting. Another provision which would be sweet but is probably only a pipe dream is to make the DA responsible for paying your attorney fees in the absence of a conviction. This would stop DA's from throwing the book at defendants hoping something will stick and keep them more honest when they proffer charges.

    I don't say this in any way of discouraging you fine folk who are working toward the repeal of 941.23 but I'm only repeating what I've heard and now believe. As you know I never felt that permitting was any infringement on our constitutional rights to keep and bear arms anyway so its no big deal for me.

    I'm heading out to cut wood this morning so bash away or whine and cry but the handwriting is on the wall. I'll be back later to pick up the pieces but I am going to put a couple of guys on ignore in the boards interests and also I feel bad for John having to come over here and sort things out all the time.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Where did you get this information? Can you post a copy of the email? You should understand the skepticism.

    Even if it is true, it has no bearing on whether or not minds can be changed before the introduction of the legislation.

    It seems to me your posting of this is more likely Schadenfreude but if you have the sources to back it up I may change my tune.
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  3. #3
    McX
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    so i guess i'll be seeing all you guys in line when the new permits are issued? me, I'll hold out to see which states are reciprocitied. Sold out by our elected leaders yet again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    Sold out by our elected leaders yet again!
    And by the self-anointed 'heavy hitters'? No, couldn't be. LOLAY Tukhus Petard! Livin large in your head.

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    That is why everyone should be contacting their legislators and let them know that if they back track on the platform of which they ran, we have recall options and they will soon be unemployed.

    Unfortunately, there are many here who will not even make an attempt to contact their legislators.

    And yes Brass, the whole OP lacks credibility but then did we expect any less?

    We are better off letting this thread die instead of helping to feed the BS to everyone else
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 11-10-2010 at 09:42 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    And by the self-anointed 'heavy hitters'? No, couldn't be. LOLAY Tukhus Petard! Livin large in your head.
    Tukhus petard? living large in my head? i dont understand these points Doug, could you give them to me in Non-Vulcan english?

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    Spartacus:

    Your post doesn't suprise me at all. I have had the gut feeling that exactly what you post will come to being. For what it's worth my order of preference is choice of carry by way of repeal of ss941.23 and 167.31. Next adopt a carry law similar to Arizona. Third a minimal shall issue concealed carry option for those that feel uncomfortable with open carry. My fears are that in haste the legislature will just try to sugar coat the old personal protection act with all it's onerous restrictions. My other fear is that the legislature will either make open carry illegal or add more restriction baggage to it. Remember the WSC in Hamdan ruled that the legislature only needs to provide one manner of carry so that the rights of Art I sec 25 can be exercised. I seriously feel that if the legislature passes concealed carry legislation that we will lose our freedom to open carry. I think the legislature will accept Gunderson as the guru of concealed carry because of his involvement during the early 2000's with the personal protection act. They will take his recommendations, which are highly influenced by the NRA, as gospel and not question it. They will do what I mention because much groundwork has already been laid and it will be the fastest way for them to get carry legislation passed so they can go back to their constituents and tell them that they upheld their campaign promise. Most of the legislature sees the state budget, general economy and health care as the most compelling problems. they will want to get the firearm carry legislation out of the way as fast as possible so they can concentrate on the problems that matter most to them. We only have a month and a half to make a lot of noise to our legislative representatives and express our wants. It is my opinion that right now nothing on the WCI agenda is more important than influencing any carry bill that comes forward. A bad carry bill can mean that any law suits in process or open carry initiatives are moot. We really have to make a lot of noise. I agree with you that the writing is on the wall.

    My opinions.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    We want names Spartacus. That way we know who to lyn...errr, umm, contact and if necessary, vote out.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/waml/waml.aspx

    I just contacted my legislator asking to repeal 941.23 and 167.31 instead of having a larger bureaucracy.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    We want names Spartacus. That way we know who to lyn...errr, umm, contact and if necessary, vote out.
    I would say we want names so we know who to contact to become part of the process, phone calls, and conversations ourselves. There is no reason we cannot be part of this. I'm sure several of us have representatives in leadership roles who can toss their weight around to come up with a more tasteful solution to us.

    Not posting the names of the people involved in this supposedly "cloak and dagger" operation is a disservice and boderline treasonous to our cause.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 11-10-2010 at 10:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Not posting the names of the people involved in this supposedly "cloak and dagger" operation is a disservice and boderline treasonous to our cause.
    I think that you presume too much, starting with essential honesty and here concluding with "our cause".

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    We want names Spartacus. That way we know who to lyn...errr, umm, contact and if necessary, vote out.
    Yes, apparently they have already forgotten what happened to Feingold. A proverbial public lynching may be in order.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    I think that you presume too much, starting with essential honesty and here concluding with "our cause".
    Maybe.

    Should I qualify?

    Legislators working behind closed doors without public oversight or only the oversight of selected "heavy hitters" is treasonous to "any cause" to which their actions will have an affect.

    In our case it includes many views or individual causes within RKBA. Our causes don't need to be the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    ... that we will definitely be getting permitting and mandated training, the details are being hammered out now through phone calls and meetings.

    The good news is that we get reciprocal carry between permitted states and some form of castle doctrine....
    Sounds like good news. Possibly really good news.

    Progress.

    It's about time. Wisconsin is a laggard in the long trend toward reasonable carry laws . . .

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Sounds like good news. Possibly really good news.

    Progress.

    It's about time. Wisconsin is a laggard in the long trend toward reasonable carry laws . . .
    We don't need permits. We don't need training. Unfortunately we do need castle doctrine law instead of common sense. Common sense would say that if a guy breaks into your house, you should be able to shoot him as you don't know his intentions.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    We don't need permits. We don't need training. Unfortunately we do need castle doctrine law instead of common sense. Common sense would say that if a guy breaks into your house, you should be able to shoot him as you don't know his intentions.
    Not Castle doctrine. Stand your Ground!

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Not Castle doctrine. Stand your Ground!
    What is the difference between the two?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    What is the difference between the two?
    Castle doctorine usually applies inside your home. Stand your ground usually applies "any place you can legally be".
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Castle doctorine usually applies inside your home. Stand your ground usually applies "any place you can legally be".
    Doesn't TX's castle doctrine protect them everywhere they can legally be? Or are you just talking generalities?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    <-- is waiting on confirmation from WCI Nik/Hubert before being too outraged...

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Doesn't TX's castle doctrine protect them everywhere they can legally be? Or are you just talking generalities?
    Generalities.
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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Thumbs up We Need What Florida Has For Their "Castle Doctrine"

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Doesn't TX's castle doctrine protect them everywhere they can legally be? Or are you just talking generalities?
    I think Florida's is the best since you can stand your ground "Any place you have the legal right to be" and cannot be held criminally liable or liable in civil court for protecting yourself. I lived in Florida when this passed and became law. It was and is great!

    http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

    http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactShe...ad.aspx?ID=188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Castle doctorine usually applies inside your home. Stand your ground usually applies "any place you can legally be".
    Nevada has "in home," which is not considered Castle Doctrine. Full Castle Doctrine law should cover "any place you can legally be." "Stand your Ground" is a component of a solid Castle Doctrine law.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I hate to be the bringer of bad news but if anyone here is capable of it then I guess its me.

    I got an email this morning which confirms what I heard a few days ago from an insider in the republican party who is telling me that we will definitely be getting permitting and mandated training, the details are being hammered out now through phone calls and meetings.

    The good news is that we get reciprocal carry between permitted states and some form of castle doctrine which we will know more about later. Personally I would persue the legislators on castle doctrine more than anything else at this time to not only include your home and vehicle but also your physical body wherever you happen to be. It should also have a provision to exclude further civil liability and lawsuits from the family and victim after the shooting. Another provision which would be sweet but is probably only a pipe dream is to make the DA responsible for paying your attorney fees in the absence of a conviction. This would stop DA's from throwing the book at defendants hoping something will stick and keep them more honest when they proffer charges.

    I don't say this in any way of discouraging you fine folk who are working toward the repeal of 941.23 but I'm only repeating what I've heard and now believe. As you know I never felt that permitting was any infringement on our constitutional rights to keep and bear arms anyway so its no big deal for me.

    I'm heading out to cut wood this morning so bash away or whine and cry but the handwriting is on the wall. I'll be back later to pick up the pieces but I am going to put a couple of guys on ignore in the boards interests and also I feel bad for John having to come over here and sort things out all the time.
    This is the same thing Rep Gunderson Told me via email. I was talking to Chad W. The new state assemblyman from Ashwaubenon we were talking Castle doctrine last night. He is 100% for it.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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  25. #25
    Regular Member na559's Avatar
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    The original Wisconsin Castle Doctrine 0f 2007:

    A Wisconsin "Castle Doctrine" bill, 2007 Assembly Bill 35, passed the Assembly on Friday, May 11, 2007; it died in the Senate and, therefore, did not become law. The bill would have created immunity for an act of self-defense for any person who uses deadly force while in his or her residence and is not engaged in illegal activity.

    My guess is this is what we will get. I'm sure they are going to do nothing more than revisit this, pass it, and move on, to not include your vehicle.
    Last edited by na559; 11-10-2010 at 12:21 PM.

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