JerryD
Regular Member
my signature says it all
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Some of You Are Not Gonna Like This...
- Thread starter Spartacus
- Start date
jpm84092
Regular Member
Be Persistent - Avoid Impatience
Greetings to my Friends in Wisconsin
March Hare offers sage advice. The concept of concealed carry is new to the vast majority of citizens and legislators in Wisconsin. Most have never been exposed to open carry. You will need to be persistent and persuasive. Point to Florida, Arizona, and Utah that have both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Be realistic. Reciprocity with other States means some sort of permit system. Look at Vermont. VT allows constitutional carry, but does not issue a permit. Vermont is a small State and those folks are in tough luck without a non-resident permit, once they cross the state line.
As an ex-Wisconsin resident now living in a "free State", I caution you that demanding all that you want and demanding it immediately will get you labeled a "gun nut". However, several hundred or even several thousand letters to legislators, particularly those newly elected, will get things done. (Remember 1976 and the repeal of Wisconsin's Motorcycle Helmet Law; taken for granted today, but thought impossible in 1972 - 1974.)
As far as training goes, while I sympathize with what many of you have written, understand that you are bucking logic. Understand too that many members of this forum are the exception when it comes to firearm ownership. The masses may not have the experience many of you have. And, except for the cost considerations, who in their right mind would argue against at least some form of firearms safety training? (Keep in mind that if you get what you want, your neighbor can and may legally purchase a handgun and cause a negligent discharge into you home killing your wife or child because he/she doesn't have a clue concerning the proper knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely own and operate a firearm.)
Thus, the "sheeple" may accept concealed carry if / when they know that those who carry received some sort of State mandated training. It does not matter to them that other States that do not require training have no (or few) problems. They do not live in those other States. You might as well be talking about Africa or Russia. So, if making progress requires training, then have a say in what the training involves. Point to Utah and Florida, the most popular non-resident permits. Point out that non-residents applying for Wisconsin permits (providing WI allows out of state instructors), would be a major source of revenue - just as it currently is for FL and UT. That will get their attention.
In the best of all worlds, WI will adopt constitutional carry with an optional permit system, and will adopt Castle Doctrine with Stand Your Ground provisions. However, Wisconsin is also a bastion of anti-gun liberals (particularly Dane and parts of Rock County). You will need to overcome this opposition. Get your neighbors to the North involved. Many were teethed on a .22LR and handle a 30-30 or .308 with ease. Get them to see the wisdom of concealed carry and the usefulness of a firearm outside of hunting season.
Carry On
Greetings to my Friends in Wisconsin
March Hare offers sage advice. The concept of concealed carry is new to the vast majority of citizens and legislators in Wisconsin. Most have never been exposed to open carry. You will need to be persistent and persuasive. Point to Florida, Arizona, and Utah that have both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Be realistic. Reciprocity with other States means some sort of permit system. Look at Vermont. VT allows constitutional carry, but does not issue a permit. Vermont is a small State and those folks are in tough luck without a non-resident permit, once they cross the state line.
As an ex-Wisconsin resident now living in a "free State", I caution you that demanding all that you want and demanding it immediately will get you labeled a "gun nut". However, several hundred or even several thousand letters to legislators, particularly those newly elected, will get things done. (Remember 1976 and the repeal of Wisconsin's Motorcycle Helmet Law; taken for granted today, but thought impossible in 1972 - 1974.)
As far as training goes, while I sympathize with what many of you have written, understand that you are bucking logic. Understand too that many members of this forum are the exception when it comes to firearm ownership. The masses may not have the experience many of you have. And, except for the cost considerations, who in their right mind would argue against at least some form of firearms safety training? (Keep in mind that if you get what you want, your neighbor can and may legally purchase a handgun and cause a negligent discharge into you home killing your wife or child because he/she doesn't have a clue concerning the proper knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely own and operate a firearm.)
Thus, the "sheeple" may accept concealed carry if / when they know that those who carry received some sort of State mandated training. It does not matter to them that other States that do not require training have no (or few) problems. They do not live in those other States. You might as well be talking about Africa or Russia. So, if making progress requires training, then have a say in what the training involves. Point to Utah and Florida, the most popular non-resident permits. Point out that non-residents applying for Wisconsin permits (providing WI allows out of state instructors), would be a major source of revenue - just as it currently is for FL and UT. That will get their attention.
In the best of all worlds, WI will adopt constitutional carry with an optional permit system, and will adopt Castle Doctrine with Stand Your Ground provisions. However, Wisconsin is also a bastion of anti-gun liberals (particularly Dane and parts of Rock County). You will need to overcome this opposition. Get your neighbors to the North involved. Many were teethed on a .22LR and handle a 30-30 or .308 with ease. Get them to see the wisdom of concealed carry and the usefulness of a firearm outside of hunting season.
Carry On
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
So by the sounds of it, if you lived in AZ you would be advocating they go back to a permit system with mandatory training? I mean if people can't be trusted with a gun, without mandatory training, what in the world are AZ Alaska, and VT thinking?
I have my Florida non-resident permit. I had only show my hunters safety certificate from 7th GRADE in order to meet the mandatory training requirement.
So by your statement above, it seems you think Florida should have put in place stiffer mandatory training requirements? (or is a 7th grade hunters safety certificate good enough to make sure your next door neighbor doesn't negligent discharge into a baby being pushed down the street by here mother?)
In addition, Drywall and siding doesn't stop a 44 magnum. Someone could be handling their gun inside their house cleaning it and have a negligent discharge. By your assertion above people should have mandatory training just to OWN a firearm?
I mean you don't want your neighbor's wife picking up the 44 mag they keep under the pillow and negligently discharging a round out the window....
Look... no one is against training. Its the "government mandatory" training that is not feasible nor does it address the myths perpetuated by comments like yours above.
oak1971
Regular Member
Pretty much. We may end up with a permit system anyway, but the way some are cheering it on is disgusting. That's what happens when you live too close to the state that put Jessie Ventura and Al Franken in office. The goofiness is contagious.
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M
McX
Guest
In addition, Drywall and siding doesn't stop a 44 magnum.
Those items dont stop my disruptor either, in fact pretty much nothing stops it. a concern, but also a warning, when you think about it. That's why I carry it.
Those items dont stop my disruptor either, in fact pretty much nothing stops it. a concern, but also a warning, when you think about it. That's why I carry it.
Sounds too much like the Jesus Gonzalez case to me... He also claimed to have "inside information" on that... So I'm not sure what to think here...
J.Gleason
Banned
+1000
J.Gleason
Banned
Hey now I kinda like Jessie. A real conspiracy theorist.
Spartacus
Banned
I went out in the woods to cut trees and got cut down myself. I got hit with a urinary tract infection that put me in bed for 3 days. I'm on antibiotics now and it seems to be clearing up but I'm nowhere near 100%. Nasty little bug.
All I can say what I heard. Make up your own minds. If you still believe that 941.23 can be repealed, work for it! But don't forget the supporting legislation necessary to put teeth in any carry bill and that is the castle doctrine as broad as it can be written. It will do you no good to defend yourself and then be prosecuted by the DA for your actions, as well as the following civil suits for money damages. Even after my criminal trial if the DA had made even ONE of the misdemeanor charges stick let alone the felony charge I would have been liable to pay for the time, travel, and accommodations of the plaintiffs which would have been significant.
Whether we get 941.23 repealed or a decent cc bill through don't forget that its going to be a red letter day in WI and one that we should all be thankful for and then work to improve our positions from there.
I'll be busy the next few days healing up, catching up on my work, and then deer hunting but will try to get on once in a while.
All I can say what I heard. Make up your own minds. If you still believe that 941.23 can be repealed, work for it! But don't forget the supporting legislation necessary to put teeth in any carry bill and that is the castle doctrine as broad as it can be written. It will do you no good to defend yourself and then be prosecuted by the DA for your actions, as well as the following civil suits for money damages. Even after my criminal trial if the DA had made even ONE of the misdemeanor charges stick let alone the felony charge I would have been liable to pay for the time, travel, and accommodations of the plaintiffs which would have been significant.
Whether we get 941.23 repealed or a decent cc bill through don't forget that its going to be a red letter day in WI and one that we should all be thankful for and then work to improve our positions from there.
I'll be busy the next few days healing up, catching up on my work, and then deer hunting but will try to get on once in a while.
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Not only does it seem logical to me
but it is the way that most people understand the concepts (I believe). Whether or not the magical words "Castle Doctrine" appear in the statute is irrelevant. Some places may use the SYG term also to refer to CD and that is consistent with what I have said. CD refers almost exclusively to the home (sometimes your car or place of work). The common thread in CD is that you are in a place that you (or perhaps your boss) has control over, including the right to exclude people. SYG covers any public area. It may be used for a private area (synonymous with CD) but that is the exception. Every state that has such laws draws a distinction between private and public areas. Thus I think it is important to use the terms consistently.
but it is the way that most people understand the concepts (I believe). Whether or not the magical words "Castle Doctrine" appear in the statute is irrelevant. Some places may use the SYG term also to refer to CD and that is consistent with what I have said. CD refers almost exclusively to the home (sometimes your car or place of work). The common thread in CD is that you are in a place that you (or perhaps your boss) has control over, including the right to exclude people. SYG covers any public area. It may be used for a private area (synonymous with CD) but that is the exception. Every state that has such laws draws a distinction between private and public areas. Thus I think it is important to use the terms consistently.
M
McX
Guest
castle doctrine? i got your castle doctrine right here ( i love this clip!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJlsc8GU50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJlsc8GU50
Doug Huffman
Banned
Sounds like (reads like) McX is ready for his TSA bodily orifice security check "right here."
"What'cha got right there, boy?" "What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week. Which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men."
"What'cha got right there, boy?" "What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week. Which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men."
[url said:
M
McX
Guest
great comeback Doug. You always get me, and make me smile.
smithman
Regular Member
People, the time to make noise on the repeal is now. I have already contacted my legislators, and others like Gunderson. They can't read minds, so we need to let them know what we want. If we don't contact them, we are GUARANTEED to get a shall issue bill with mandatory training and fees.
If you post here in support of the CCW repeal, then you better contact your legislators. Otherwise you really aren't helping the cause. People who are afraid to speak to the right folks aren't really the patriots they think they are.
If you post here in support of the CCW repeal, then you better contact your legislators. Otherwise you really aren't helping the cause. People who are afraid to speak to the right folks aren't really the patriots they think they are.
J.Gleason
Banned
+1000
K
kittyhawk63
Guest
If you don't mind a Texan, lost in northern California, opining, this is what you get when you have a bunch of lawyers/legislatures screwing with common English. I wish we could send the whole lot across the nation, particularly in D.C., back to the holes they crawled out of and never let them back in session again. Every day we lose more and more of our rights because power corrupts...and we the people have to pay for it. These maggot flies give themselves exemptions from everything they lay on us. Where is my Texas fly swatter?
btt
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