Rep George Lavender will sponsor Texas open carry bill

Fisherman said:

Folks, now is the time to join LSCDL.

Click to expand...

I get that the primary point of joining is financially to support the time and energy of the people fighting for gun rights in Texas. However, I keep reading what seem to be indications that if you aren't a member, you're not given access to the meaningful information on the site. Is this true? I should hope not. I'm not interested in being a member of a closed-door organization. Please assure me that all information about bills and other legislative efforts is and will be public and that that information will be kept up-to-date, and that the only information unavailable to non-members is and will be ongoing procedural discussion and information, strictly limited to the internal workings of LSCDL. If I am so assured, I'll seriously consider joining. I won't, however, have anything to do with a public policy organization that wants people to pay to play. Will you put my concerns to rest?

()pen(arry said:

I get that the primary point of joining is financially to support the time and energy of the people fighting for gun rights in Texas. However, I keep reading what seem to be indications that if you aren't a member, you're not given access to the meaningful information on the site. Is this true? I should hope not. I'm not interested in being a member of a closed-door organization. Please assure me that all information about bills and other legislative efforts is and will be public and that that information will be kept up-to-date, and that the only information unavailable to non-members is and will be ongoing procedural discussion and information, strictly limited to the internal workings of LSCDL. If I am so assured, I'll seriously consider joining. I won't, however, have anything to do with a public policy organization that wants people to pay to play. Will you put my concerns to rest?

Click to expand...

When the draft that is in the hands of the legislators is entered and becomes a bill, it will become public. Until then, only members can read it and there are a couple of sections of the forums that only members can access. There is a good reason for that. We're not a closed-door org but members get some info before the public will see it on the main site. Ongoing procedural discussion is one of the things that is only available to members.

For example, I am a member of AOPA which is a similar organization for pilots and airplane owners and there's a ton of stuff on their website that non-members can't access and for good reason.

I probably didn't explain everything exactly right but I am on a deadline with some work and need to get paid so maybe I can do a better job this evening.

I joined LSCDL at the lowest level of membership back in December. I figured any organization spinning off of VA CDL, the AZ CDL - given the reality in those 2 states - was worth the equivalent investment of a KFC 12 PIECE "Super Feast" in order to contribute to the effort involved in establishing such an organization aimed at REALLY bringing about postiive change for handgun carry in Texas. How did that '60's song go ? - "Nothing ain't worth NOTHING - but it's FREE."

Buyer beware - for sure - but apply some logic and try to understand that what Representative Lavender has agreed to undertake has some pretty powerful lobbying opposition -and unfortunately some of that opposition isn't the "Brady Bunch". LSCDL leadership has been working closely with the Representative to cross all the "T's" & dot the "I's". No absolute guarantees this session - if that's what you're wanting to hitch a ride on, but effort has to START SOMEWHERE , and there WILL BE another session in 2 more years. That's how the process works. What's restoration of liberty worth to you ?
Consider getting on board and gain some insight into the hard work others have been putting forth towards restoring constitutional open carry in Texas. Then you can start contacting your Texas legislators to garner their support for the bill when it's filed.

One of my favorite cliches is the proverbial "cracker barrel" - you know in former days the townsfolk would pass the day "chewing fat" around the "cracker barrel" on the front porch of the general store. It was kind of a clearing house for gossip, political commentary, gripes, and more often than not a vehicle for procrastination.

Just maybe it's time to sweep up the cracker crumbs off the floor, roll up our shirt-sleeves, and really get down to business ?

www.lonestarcdl.org

try to understand that what Representative Lavender has agreed to undertake has some pretty powerful lobbying opposition -and unfortunately some of that opposition isn't the "Brady Bunch".

That would likely be Alice Tripp, the lobbyist for TSRA (Texas State Rifle Association). She hates open carry.

I'm not understanding what it is that is of such a specific degree of sensitivity that the general public can't be trusted to know about it, but some random yahoo nobody knows with $25 can be. That's where I'm finding the cognitive disconnect, here. If anyone is operating under the delusion that there's even the remotest chance that a public policy organization that is working with a pro-open carry state senator and only charges $25 for the inside scoop isn't compromised already, then there's a bigger problem than the $25 door charge. If there's something that needs keeping secret, keep it secret.

If the point is that the juicy stuff is kept behind locked doors until a person pays, out of a perception that more people will pay to get to the juicy stuff and thereby increase the total funds available for the legislative and legal efforts, then okay. There's nothing morally wrong with that, and that should be the explanation given.

I, personally, would be inclined to donate to an organization fighting for the principles of liberty and justice that did what it did out in the open.

But I won't pay to be part of a special privileges club.

It's not a special privileges club.

Lavender obviously doesn't want it known to every yahoo in the public what is in the bill. If you don't want to help, then don't join up, get out of the way, and allow everyone else to carry the water for you.

Just to put a few things in perspective.

I am an active member of VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/) - we like to think we are the original, but we might be somewhat prejudiced.

We are a grass roots organization focused on defending and promoting gun rights in Virginia. The paid memberships number in the thousands - that is where our strength lies when we meet with legislators and the press. We are an all volunteer group, with some carrying the ball more than others, but all contribute by "being."

The operation of an organization of that size is neither free nor cheap and it requires dedicated leadership. The Board of Directors make up the management team and are elected by the Executive Members (approx 50 in number) who may suggest or advise the BoD on other matters. We have executive sessions wherein regular members may attend and Board meetings where EMs may attend, except at closed board meetings where corporate business is the agenda. The BoD makes all final decisions and major plans. No one speaks for VCDL but our president, Philip Van Cleave.

Without this structure and clearly defined procedures there would be chaos and the effectiveness would be far less. Do we have secrets - not really, but on the other hand we cannot promote every idea that is suggested. Decisions must be made somewhere along the line. We've been very effective so far.

Consider all of this and get involved with your state group - help it to grow and flourish. Be a part in determining your future.

Best of luck and well wishes to you all.

Perhaps people misunderstand what I've said.

• I am perfectly willing and happy to donate money to an organization simply because they need money and promote causes I support (hell, I gave $25 to Rand Paul's campaign even though he's in another state and I abhor some of his more neo-con policies)
• I think putting money toward effective promotion of open carry in Texas is a good idea and I'm generally inclined to do so
• There are, indeed, things that, for strategic reasons, should be kept close to the chest for a short period of time (such as not making widely available working drafts of controversial legislation)
• There is nothing that is said behind a $25 all-comers door that is one iota more secret among the people to whom it matters than what would be said completely out in the open
• Given that anything that needs to be kept secret has no place being told to people who merely pay $25 and possess no other credential, I don't understand what possible information there could be that requires a $25 membership to see, unless it's purely a member perk
• There's nothing at all wrong with member perks
• I'm not personally interested in financially supporting an organization that wants to be both a public advocacy organization and a member perks organization

I'm still waiting for a clear answer to my question. Is meaningful information a member perk, or is it a public service? If the latter, I'm inclined to join. If the former, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

Is it becoming clearer now? I'm more inclined to donate money if information is less restricted. There's no laziness there. There's no indifference there. There's no wanting something for nothing there. I want to spend my money supporting an organization that does not favor people who spend their money to support them. If LSCDL is in possession of information that should not be given to the public, but is giving it to $25 yahoos (aka the public), then that is an organization with very bad judgement and I won't go near it. However, I assume that it is not an organization with very bad judgement, and that is why I've asked the question that I've asked.

()pen(arry said:

Perhaps people misunderstand what I've said.

• I am perfectly willing and happy to donate money to an organization simply because they need money and promote causes I support (hell, I gave $25 to Rand Paul's campaign even though he's in another state and I abhor some of his more neo-con policies)
• I think putting money toward effective promotion of open carry in Texas is a good idea and I'm generally inclined to do so
• There are, indeed, things that, for strategic reasons, should be kept close to the chest for a short period of time (such as not making widely available working drafts of controversial legislation)
• There is nothing that is said behind a $25 all-comers door that is one iota more secret among the people to whom it matters than what would be said completely out in the open
• Given that anything that needs to be kept secret has no place being told to people who merely pay $25 and possess no other credential, I don't understand what possible information there could be that requires a $25 membership to see, unless it's purely a member perk
• There's nothing at all wrong with member perks
• I'm not personally interested in financially supporting an organization that wants to be both a public advocacy organization and a member perks organization

I'm still waiting for a clear answer to my question. Is meaningful information a member perk, or is it a public service? If the latter, I'm inclined to join. If the former, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

Is it becoming clearer now? I'm more inclined to donate money if information is less restricted. There's no laziness there. There's no indifference there. There's no wanting something for nothing there. I want to spend my money supporting an organization that does not favor people who spend their money to support them. If LSCDL is in possession of information that should not be given to the public, but is giving it to $25 yahoos (aka the public), then that is an organization with very bad judgement and I won't go near it. However, I assume that it is not an organization with very bad judgement, and that is why I've asked the question that I've asked.

Click to expand...

There is no secret information in LSCDL. Not once to my knowledge has anyone been asked to not tell non-members something they read there. You said it yourself...
"[*]There is nothing that is said behind a $25 all-comers door that is one iota more secret among the people to whom it matters than what would be said completely out in the open"

There is one and only one thing in the entire members section that is not public information and that is a draft for the OC bill. As soon as Rep. Lavender submits the bill it will become public information. I think it's perfectly fair that the draft is only visible to those who have helped make it possible.

The main benefit at LSCDL is the organized and thorough presentation of legislative actions. If you're willing to donate a little money to further the effort and in return gain access to that organized presentation of readily accessible public information that's great. If not, that's fine too, but I have to disagree with the way you're talking about a group you appear to know very little about.

pooley said:

There is no secret information in LSCDL. Not once to my knowledge has anyone been asked to not tell non-members something they read there. You said it yourself...
"
[*]There is nothing that is said behind a $25 all-comers door that is one iota more secret among the people to whom it matters than what would be said completely out in the open"

There is one and only one thing in the entire members section that is not public information and that is a draft for the OC bill. As soon as Rep. Lavender submits the bill it will become public information. I think it's perfectly fair that the draft is only visible to those who have helped make it possible.

The main benefit at LSCDL is the organized and thorough presentation of legislative actions. If you're willing to donate a little money to further the effort and in return gain access to that organized presentation of readily accessible public information that's great. If not, that's fine too, but I have to disagree with the way you're talking about a group you appear to know very little about.

Click to expand...

Good morning!

That's all true but one of the big benefits is that by banding together, we're all on the same page, with the same message. Being consistent and all pushing the same message is important. Think about what happened a couple of years ago. As I understand it (I wasn't around for that mess), everyone calling the legislators had a different idea of what open carry was to them and the effort wasn't organized and it was "our way or the highway". Some legislators who would have helped with open carry didn't because of the confusion and non-cooperation.

So, once the draft is all edited and entered as a bill, we can all call our reps and simply tell them to vote for the bill. This avoids further confusion.

Here's the bottom line in my mind. You all want Constitutional Open Carry. LSCDL wants Constitutional Open Carry. LSCDL has a draft bill, a sponsor and support for Constitutional Open Carry. We're all going to have to work together to get what we want.

+1

Fisherman said:

Good morning!

That's all true but one of the big benefits is that by banding together, we're all on the same page, with the same message. Being consistent and all pushing the same message is important. Think about what happened a couple of years ago. As I understand it (I wasn't around for that mess), everyone calling the legislators had a different idea of what open carry was to them and the effort wasn't organized and it was "our way or the highway". Some legislators who would have helped with open carry didn't because of the confusion and non-cooperation.

So, once the draft is all edited and entered as a bill, we can all call our reps and simply tell them to vote for the bill. This avoids further confusion.

Here's the bottom line in my mind. You all want Constitutional Open Carry. LSCDL wants Constitutional Open Carry. LSCDL has a draft bill, a sponsor and support for Constitutional Open Carry. We're all going to have to work together to get what we want.

Click to expand...

That's exactly right. We all have our own image of what OC should be in Texas. I have my own agenda for gun rights but as far as this is concerned, my opinion takes a distant 2nd place to furthering our rights as gun owners. I fully support and call my rep/senator for every single pro-gun bill that gets introduced even if it isn't exactly the bill I would have written or if it wouldn't affect me in the slightest for the simple fact that they all expand somebody's gun rights to some extent. That somebody may be the person who's phone call convinces his/her rep to vote for this bill.

EDIT: It's evening for me, not morning. These night shifts are already killing me. I haven't worked nights in about 8 months...

+1

just joined.

Oo-rah!

Good man.

Watching this closely! Hope it becomes law. Nice site y'all.

Lindfarms said:

Watching this closely! Hope it becomes law. Nice site y'all.

Click to expand...

Welcome aboard Sir, enjoy your flight.

Lindfarms said:

Watching this closely! Hope it becomes law. Nice site y'all.

Click to expand...

Thanks! What's NWTF? North West Turkey Farm? Just guessing from the logo and the NW.

I hope there something in this bill about entering bars and places that serve alcohol and also give us legal right to open carry when in a school zone area

Fisherman said:

Thanks! What's NWTF? North West Turkey Farm? Just guessing from the logo and the NW.

Click to expand...

Could be "NOW what the F***?"

The deadline is fast approaching. I wonder if Mr. Lavender is getting cold feet. Realistically, I don't expect it to get much attention. Despite the fact that Alice Tripp said she would not oppose nor support it, I think otherwise. I just don't trust her after she was so openly hostile to it last session.