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** Legal Defense fund for Skidmark **

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I have just been advised that this has been cross posted/linked on the following sites:


  • TheFirearmsForum.com

  • Glocktalk.com

  • VaGunTrader.com

  • VaGunForum.net
Please feel free to repost/quote the OP (post #1) in it's entirety wherever beneficial to Skidmark, be sure to include the link to this thread.

Let's roll!
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I have just been advised that this has been cross posted/linked on the following sites:


  • TheFirearmsForum.com

  • Glocktalk.com

  • VaGunTrader.com

  • VaGunForum.net
Please feel free to repost/quote the OP (post #1) in it's entirety wherever beneficial to Skidmark, be sure to include the link to this thread.

Let's roll!

I will link this on http://AlabamaOpenCarry.com.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
Postcard Sent

surryferry.jpg
 

Brimstone Baritone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Leeds, Alabama, USA
Oh, if only we could be lucky enough it was caught on tape. Hang in there, Skid. The wait til the trial is the hardest part, or so I've been told. ;)

I'll be sending you an early Christmas present soon as that paypal link is up.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
We'll be sending some monetary assistance once we assess what we can share. I'm sorry to hear of this but I'm glad Skid did not back down.

This will serve as another good reminder why the digital voice recorder is so important!
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
We'll be sending some monetary assistance once we assess what we can share. I'm sorry to hear of this but I'm glad Skid did not back down.

The choice was not his to make - he conducted himself by the book, page and paragraph, and left free and unencumbered. All appeared over until that fateful knock on his door.

Not acquiescing to illegal requests/demands should never provoke such a response (contempt of cop) under color of law. Incidents such as this is what divides we the people from the blue wall - hurts that relationship which should be based on trust and honor. An honest evaluation by the supervisor and sheriff's deputy should have ended this with a smile and a handshake. It should have been nolle prossed.

These individuals have embarrassed themselves, their departments, the County - indeed the entire state of Virginia. Now they have left Skidmark no choice but to embarrass them in court. That is where we come into the fray with our contributions.
 

REALteach4u

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
Grape,

It sounds like you need to involve the State AG, the U.S. AG, the NRA, and a lawsuit to the tune of $50 Million for wrongful arrest, wrongful prosecution, unlawful detainment, abuse of power, defamation of character, and anything else you can find in the law.

At a minimum, this needs NRA attention!


He's going to quickly become a victim of the premise: I'm a cop...even if I lie, whose testimony do you think they're going to believe when we get to court.
 

armedandsafe

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Washington (state)
My contribution will be sent when the PP link is established.

Speaking of recorders, my latest sportsmansguide catalog is featuring tiny voice recorders for about $22.00. (I'm not affiliated with them, just thought it fit some of the comments.)

Pops
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
My contribution will be sent when the PP link is established.

Speaking of recorders, my latest sportsmansguide catalog is featuring tiny voice recorders for about $22.00. (I'm not affiliated with them, just thought it fit some of the comments.)

Pops

Welcome aboard - heck of a way to meet isn't it? Thanks for the help.

Great bunch of solid, friendly people here from all walks of life with a common cause.

BTW - take note of my tag/signature line below.
 

armedandsafe

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Washington (state)
@ grapeshot, Thanks. I'm mod on a couple of firearms threads, and own a small photography business, so won't be hanging around much for awhile, but I'll be here in spirit when not in body.

I'm going to link this to thefirearmsroundtable as soon as I go back and get the safe link.*

Pops

*Done
 
Last edited:

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
For you folks wanting to write letters to the Sheriff's department here is a form letter we've been using in Washington State, edit as you see fit.


-Bill





Sheriff

1. At present, your deputies are unlawfully harassing and persons lawfully open carrying handguns **secured in holsters** on foot in your jurisdiction. Please take action to ensure your deputies are brought up to speed with the authorities cited in this discussion regarding the law of open carry in Washington.

2. Non-consensual police stops of open carriers for simply open carrying is per se unlawful.

As you and your deputies should already know, it is not unlawful to openly carry handguns in Washington, and that like most states, no license is required to open carry on foot, and local ordinances to the contrary are unlawful as a matter of state preemption law. RCW 9.41.290. The United States Supreme Court has established that it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment for the police to seize a person absent reasonable articulable suspicion ("RAS") of crime afoot. Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968). Accordingly, the Washington Court of Appeals has recently affirmed a trial court's holding that Washington law "does not and, under the Constitution, cannot prohibit the mere [open] carrying of a firearm in public." State v. Casad, 139 Wash.App. 1032 (Wash. App.Div.2 2007) (suppressing evidence of unlawful possession of firearms because stop of Defendant was not grounded in reasonable articulable suspicion of any crime).

Further, even during a valid Terry stop, the United States Supreme Court forbids police to even conduct a light pat down or seize weapons unless the subsequent to RAS for the stop, the "an officer is justified in believing that the individual whose suspicious behavior he is investigating at close range is [both] armed and presently dangerous to the officer or to others." 392 U.S. at 24. Stated another way, only "o long as the officer is [both] entitled to make a forcible stop, and has reason to believe that the suspect is armed **and dangerous** . . .may [he] conduct a weapons search limited in scope to this protective purpose." Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972) (emphasis added). So even if there were there to come a time that a Washington law enforcement officer properly seizes a person pursuant to RAS for brief investigatory purposes, the officer is not entitled to seize an openly carry weapon absent "reason to believe that the suspect is . . . [also presently] dangerous." Id. Should an open carrier stopped validly under Terry consensually produce a Concealed Pistol License, this fact weighs heavily against any officer's claim that the suspect is "presently dangerous" such that the gun maybe lawfully seized and serial numbers obtained. Accordingly, suppression of any evidence obtained in seizing the gun is likely under these circumstances.

3. Nonconsensual stops of open carriers to demand identification or check gun serial numbers is unlawful in Washington.

A mere report of a man with a gun is not grounds for a Terry stop. Florida v. J. L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000). Americans cannot be required to carry and produce identification credentials on demand to the police. Kolender v. Lawson, 461 U.S. 352 (1983). Washington does not have a "stop and ID" statute. However, even where a state enacts a "stop and ID" statute, stop must be limited to situations where RAS exists of a crime, and further, stop subject's statement of his name satisfies the ID requirement as Kolender, discussed supra, has not been overruled. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004). Even where a state has established a duty to carry a license for some activity, absent RAS for the stop, the license cannot be demanded. State v. Peters, 2008 WL 2185754 (Wis. App. I Dist. 2008) (driver of vehicle has no duty to produce driver's license absent RAS) (citing Hiibel). Law enforcement officers seizing persons for refusal to show identification are "not entitled to dismissal of . . . [42 USC 1983 claims] based on qualified immunity." Stufflebeam v. Harris, 521 F.3d 884, 889 (8th Cir. 2008).

4. Editorializing against open carry is not the province of law enforcement.

If your deputies have any objection to open carry, they should contact their state legislator on their off duty time and not use the color of authority behind their badges and uniforms to stifle both the right to bear arms and the First Amendment right of expressive conduct to open carry firearms.

5. Unlawful stops of open carriers will result in suppression of evidence even if unlawful conduct is uncovered, allowing criminals to get off the hook.


In Casad, see supra, the Appeals court suppressed evidence of the unlawful possession of firearms because law enforcement seized a man for merely openly carrying firearms in public. This result is not unusual, see Goodman v. Commonwealth, 2007 WL 2988343
(Va.App. 2007) (same result as Casad), because the result is as a matter of federal Constitutional law commanded by the United States Supreme Court. As discussed supra, see Florida v. J. L.; Hicks.

6. No qualified immunity available for law enforcement officials regarding open carrier harassment in Washington.

As it is clearly established law that the open carry of handguns in holsters is lawful without a CPL, qualified immunity does not attach to your deputies for the unlawful harassment, ID checks, see Stufflebeam, discussed supra, and gun serial number checks, see also Hicks and J.L, discussed supra. Further, by way of this webform email I am putting you as the Sheriff, and the Office of the Sheriff, of actual notice in this matter, subjecting you to personal liability for damage claims under 42 USC 1983. See Will v. Michigan Dept. of State Police, 491 U.S. 58 (1989); Ex parte Young, 209 U.S. 123 (1908).

7. In conclusion, please know that it is the constitutional right of open carriers to enjoy the same freedom of movement and right of assembly in society as those wishing to carry concealed, or not at all. The purpose of law enforcement is to help ensure open carriers enjoy these freedoms, not to stifle them. Please contact me by email at your earliest convenience to confirm that your deputies will cease harassment of open carriers immediately.

Sincerely,

YOUR NAME
ADDRESS
PHONE NUMBER
 
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