1911 vs XD (Conceal Carry)

Huck · Jan 26, 2011

I had a XD-45 service model, with a 4" barrel and while It's lighter and shorter than a M1911 as well as having a higher mag capacity than a M1911, (13 vs 7) I found 1911, a full sized Mil spec one in stainless, to be more comfortable carrying concealed. The XD may be shorter and lighter but the 1911 is flatter.

Anyway, I sold the XD and kept the M1911, though my primary carry arm, concealed or open, is a S&W model 10.

coorsleftfield · Jan 26, 2011

D_Weezy said:
I thought that 7 round magazines were the standard. Isn't that what the 1911 originally came with. I have a full size Springfield Mil-Spec 1911-A1 and it came with a 7 round magazine. I bought aftermarket Colt magazines and they are also 7 rounds. I guess you mean, that the compact magazines are too short to hold more than 7 rounds. I can use 8 round magazines in my firearm, am I correct?

mil-spec is 7 rounds, but you can buy mccormick or Wilson combat 8 round mags which are the same length, but hold an extra round.

zack991 · Jan 26, 2011

D_Weezy said:
I thought that 7 round magazines were the standard. Isn't that what the 1911 originally came with. I have a full size Springfield Mil-Spec 1911-A1 and it came with a 7 round magazine. I bought aftermarket Colt magazines and they are also 7 rounds. I guess you mean, that the compact magazines are too short to hold more than 7 rounds. I can use 8 round magazines in my firearm, am I correct?

Yes, you can get eight and ten round 1911 mags, they sell tournament magazines that hold well over 10. I personally have three 8 round McCormick Power magazines that are flush like the stock colt magazines. The ten round mags stick out about an inch further, but are well worth the extra rounds.

robin.kevin · Jan 27, 2011

Another question, hope yall still looking at this thread...

How is the slide rack on the 1911 compare to XD? On my XD the slide rack is very hard and I do worry that if one hand was taken out of the fight or under stress of a gun fight that I may have trouble racking the slide fast and clearing a jam if it was to happen. Is the 1911 easier? I was told right after I bought the XD that they are stiffer due to the double spring. I grew up shooting wheel guns, only semi I used was dads High Standard .22 so still a little new to semi's but believe they are the best way to go when CC.

Thank you all for the help and insight.

jeeper1 · Jan 27, 2011

Racking the slide on a 1911 is hard if the hammer is down as is normal with a failure to fire. Easier if the hammer is back.

marshaul · Jan 27, 2011

The XD slide is pretty hard to rack as far as most autoloaders go.

With a 1911, it depends on the recoil spring strength, as well as the mainspring power if the hammer is down (and thus the slide has to also cock it).

But, it's almost always much, much easier. Actually most fullsize 1911s are pretty easy compared to a lot of guns.

zack991 · Jan 27, 2011

marshaul said:
The XD slide is pretty hard to rack as far as most autoloaders go.

With a 1911, it depends on the recoil spring strength, as well as the mainspring power if the hammer is down (and thus the slide has to also cock it).

But, it's almost always much, much easier. Actually most full size 1911s are pretty easy compared to a lot of guns.

This. Now since I upgraded the recoil spring it slams home hard. Some guns work better using the slide to reload and others the slide stop. Basically I cant be a wimp when racking my gun or I will get a failure to feed. I damaged two rounds because of my stupidity. Some are easier than others and mine will get easier with use.

marshaul · Jan 27, 2011

zack991 said:
This. Now since I upgraded the recoil spring it slams home hard. Some guns work better using the slide to reload and others the slide stop. Basically I cant be a wimp when racking my gun or I will get a failure to feed. I damaged two rounds because of my stupidity. Some are easier than others and mine will get easier with use.

Just out of curiosity, is there any aspect of your tune which specifically justifies such a heavy recoil spring?

Interestingly enough, JMB specified a 14-16 pound recoil spring, which is lighter than the 18 which seems to be "standard" for most makers these days, as is way lighter than some extra-power recoil springs.

With something close to a standard tune, most folks would be genuinely astonished at how well a 1911 runs with a light recoil spring.

Also, depending on many variables, many folks find that the sweet spot for shot follow-up (so the spring doesn't force the slide forward so hard & fast that the gun jerks too far down during the second half of its recoil cycle) is about 15 pounds. With my gun, this is ideal for letting the muzzle "drop" right back to its original position after each shot, without too much or too little tendency come back down.

Also, it can be argued that, in terms of battering the gun, the design is optimized for a light spring. When traveling rearward, the slide is halted by coming into contact with a portion of the frame (inside the dust cover), which is specifically reinforced so as to handle all the beating it must take, even with a light spring.

In contrast, when moving forward, the momentum of the slide is finally halted when the barrel locks up into the slide, and the barrel (now with slide locked to it) slams forward into slide stop pin, and the entire momentum is absorbed entirely by just that little pin and its little hole. Eventually a strong spring can cause problems here.

MT GUNNY · Jan 27, 2011

I bought this Ross Medium Frame holster and modified it. Removing the belt holder that stretched from bottom to top and added major width to the overall Rig. Notice the Little holes that was left after ward. You may wounder how it stays in Place? thats a good Question. The Grain of the leather grips the inside of my pants and shirt, and the added force of my belt holds it in place extremely well. Since the picture I have added two small holes and ran two loops of thin cord for added security. They add NO thickness to the rig and no weight. I have tried this method with other Firearms like the M&P and I "do not" get the same comfort factor.

I use this for both open and CC. On the side you cant see, the holster completely separates the metal of the pistol from my skin when in a CC Mode.
I have also cut away some material so i get a good grip on it prior to removal from the holster.

zack991 · Jan 27, 2011

marshaul said:
Just out of curiosity, is there any aspect of your tune which specifically justifies such a heavy recoil spring?

Interestingly enough, JMB specified a 14-16 pound recoil spring, which is lighter than the 18 which seems to be "standard" for most makers these days, as is way lighter than some extra-power recoil springs.

With something close to a standard tune, most folks would be genuinely astonished at how well a 1911 runs with a light recoil spring.

Also, depending on many variables, many folks find that the sweet spot for shot follow-up (so the spring doesn't force the slide forward so hard & fast that the gun jerks too far down during the second half of its recoil cycle) is about 15 pounds. With my gun, this is ideal for letting the muzzle "drop" right back to its original position after each shot, without too much or too little tendency come back down.

Also, it can be argued that, in terms of battering the gun, the design is optimized for a light spring. When traveling rearward, the slide is halted by coming into contact with a portion of the frame (inside the dust cover), which is specifically reinforced so as to handle all the beating it must take, even with a light spring.

In contrast, when moving forward, the momentum of the slide is finally halted when the barrel locks up into the slide, and the barrel (now with slide locked to it) slams forward into slide stop pin, and the entire momentum is absorbed entirely by just that little pin and its little hole. Eventually a strong spring can cause problems here.

Simple the one that came with my used 1911 had no real spring tension left in it. I replaced it with the heaver spring and found it is more than I was wanting. I am currently have a lighter spring on order from midway USA and should be here by Saturday.

marshaul · Jan 27, 2011

zack991 said:
Simple the one that came with my used 1911 had no real spring tension left in it. I replaced it with the heaver spring and found it is more than I was wanting. I am currently have a lighter spring on order from midway USA and should be here by Saturday.

Oh, well, then it sounds like you've already got things figured out! Excuse my presumptuousness!

zack991 · Jan 27, 2011

marshaul said:
Oh, well, then it sounds like you've already got things figured out! Excuse my presumptuousness!

its cool, I rather have a person ask than say nothing at all. For some people may have thought it was normal for it to slam that hard forward.

robin.kevin · Jan 27, 2011

See and I m starting to think I just need to start handling more autos. Maybe the XD isnt all that hard. I have large hands which makes it hard for me to get a good grip on the slide, thats my biggest trouble.
My mother has a .380 jennings which is real easy to rack, and of course the dads .22 is easy since its .22.

Thanks for the info, I think when I get the time I will stop by the local shops and just ask to look at some of their autos and see what I think. I would go with a wheel gun but unless its a snubby they can be hard to conceal. Now I m just thinking on the keyboard so I'll end at that lol.

D_Weezy · Jan 28, 2011

My XD .45ACP slide is pretty hard to rack. In contrast, I can rack the slide on my Springfield 1911-A1 with one hand. If I put my thumb around the backstrap and place my four fingers across the top of the slide, I can pull the slide back with my fingers and cock the weapon. I wish, I could post a video of it.

robin.kevin · Jan 28, 2011

It seems it should be easier to me. I grew up on a farm doing farm work so my hand strength better then average yet me hand slips by the time I have the slide fully racked.

I shot and handle a Kimber once, but I was young and didnt even really know what I was holding. Just knew it was a .45. I remember it shot great and everything seem to work smooth on it. I cant really say that for the XD. It shoots good and never has jam but its a pain to load the clips, hard to rack, and I have to pull the slide back in order to press down the slide release... Going to go to the gun shop and see if he doesnt have an 1911 that I can look at.

Anyone heard of Norinco Arms? I think they are from china and not completely sure on what trade is with them at this point in time. I didnt know if they would be as good as the Armscor that makes the Rock Island 1911s... Of course I know the lower end 1911s arent going to be as nice as a Kimber but they are in my budget...

marshaul · Jan 28, 2011

Kimber is overrated. I wouldn't buy a Kimber. Many better options at any of their price ranges.

I personally have never shot a Norinco, so I can't say. They have a mixed reputation, however. Many of their clones are apparently good. However, the one gun I probably would not want from Norinco is a 1911, due to the importance of craftsmanship in the assembly process for 1911s. However, possibly others have a different opinion.

If you do get a 1911, I've little doubt you'll end up happy. It really is a superlative design.

However, as to the XD: Most double-stack autoloader mags are a pain to load for the last one or two rounds. The XD is not unique in this. However, 1911 mags are some of the easiest to load of all.

The slide is indeed hard to rack, although I find that the slide lock works consistently, so that the only time I would expect to rack the slide is loading the first round when holstering at the beginning of the day. Of course, one-handed operation drills are nearly impossible with the XD, for those who like to train for such things.

As for the slide release lever, I'm surprised you're having difficulty with this. It's not a problem I've noticed on any of the XDs I've handled or shot, including my own. Is the problem only an issue when an empty mag is inserted, or did you find that you were unable to use the slide release lever after inserting a loaded mag at the range?

All things considered, while I prefer the 1911, I like my XD a lot, and don't intend to sell it (I bought it after my two 1911s).

robin.kevin · Jan 28, 2011

The slide release is something I actually only use when closing the slide after the last round or when cleaning. I always insert loaded mags in with the slide close then rack it to place one in the stove pipe. I assume its naturally hard to use the release with an empty mag?

This weekend I should get some time to stop by the local gun shop and handle a 1911. Depending on how much I like it compare to the XD I will either sell it to get a affordable 1911 such as the RIA. Otherwise I will keep the XD and just save up for a nice colt.

I agree that Kimbers are overrated. To me a well made 1911 that is taken care of will shoot just as good as the other. I like the idea of getting a lower end one such as a RIA and then upgrade it in the places I see fit over time. That way I end up with a sidearm set up for me and still under the cost of a custom 1911 that is set up for someone else.

robin.kevin · Jan 28, 2011

Just tried the slide release without a mag and it works with just a little bit of effort. So it must be where I been trying to use it to close the slide with a empty mag.

zack991 · Jan 28, 2011

robin.kevin said:
Just tried the slide release without a mag and it works with just a little bit of effort. So it must be where I been trying to use it to close the slide with a empty mag.

That would do it.

robin.kevin · Jan 28, 2011

zack991 said:
That would do it.

In my eyes its that only time you would really want to use it as such. I know you could run the mag empty then drop empty, slap in the spare and drop lever to chamber. But besides for drills or combat theres no real reason to do this and I dont feel comfortable chambering that way.

1911 vs XD (Conceal Carry)

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