1911 vs XD (Conceal Carry)

[zack991]

In my eyes its that only time you would really want to use it as such. I know you could run the mag empty then drop empty, slap in the spare and drop lever to chamber. But besides for drills or combat theres no real reason to do this and I dont feel comfortable chambering that way.

Some guns are designed better to be chambered this way than other models, better yet keep them loaded at all times. My guns never leave a lock and loaded status, never. The only time I do, I am cleaning them. One time I had unloaded my firearm and my wife had gone to bed. In the middle in the night I heard noises down stairs. I grabbed my handgun to check it out; it was the damn dog in the trash. Yet when I checked to clear my gun afterwords I had never loaded it before I went down stairs. I got into such a heavy mid sleep I was not thinking I forgot to load it. Thank God it was the dog.

 

[robin.kevin]

I usually keep mind loaded, The only time I ever try using the lever to close the slide has been cleaning which I clean my gun often even if it has not been fired I want to keep it clear of dust and well lube. A little more then it needs but it gives me an excuse to play with it I figure lol.

 

[zack991]

I usually keep mind loaded, The only time I ever try using the lever to close the slide has been cleaning which I clean my gun often even if it has not been fired I want to keep it clear of dust and well lube. A little more then it needs but it gives me an excuse to practice with it I figure lol.

Well I practice when the wifes away and draw at each of the light switches in the house to practice my point of aim and so on.

 

[marshaul]

I like the idea of getting a lower end one such as a RIA and then upgrade it in the places I see fit over time. That way I end up with a sidearm set up for me and still under the cost of a custom 1911 that is set up for someone else.

This is what I did. Mine's a real beauty, and I'm quite satisfied. I'll post a pic later. I got to set myself up with an unusual custom trigger that I quite like: 7.5 pounds (so, heavy), not a "glass-rod shattering" crispness to the trigger, just nice, clean, with no detectable creep. I shoot it very well and feel quite comfortably carrying it.

Incidentally, RIAs are a good platform to do this with these days, as lately they've been building them quite to-spec. I was surprised by how much stuff dropped in that shouldn't drop in with this last build! In at least one instance I had to do some polishing just to feel like I did any work!

 

[robin.kevin]

This is what I did. Mine's a real beauty, and I'm quite satisfied. I'll post a pic later. I got to set myself up with an unusual custom trigger that I quite like: 7.5 pounds (so, heavy), not a "glass-rod shattering" crispness to the trigger, just nice, clean, with no detectable creep. I shoot it very well and feel quite comfortably carrying it.

Incidentally, RIAs are a good platform to do this with these days, as lately they've been building them quite to-spec. I was surprised by how much stuff dropped in that shouldn't drop in with this last build! In at least one instance I had to do some polishing just to feel like I did any work!

I was told they are about as close to colt specs as they can be. However I am wanting to get a 4in barrel instead of the 5in and that could prove hard to find.

 

[Michigander]

If you legitmately want to carry concealed year round, and not just to places you may as well be OCing in, you will probably end up wishing you had a smaller gun. Particularly if you already don't like CCing the XD. If I was buying a gun specifically for concealed carry in average circumstances, with maybe a little OC too, I would be looking to sub compact, double stacked guns, and if needed maybe single stack, depending on how small I needed. Somewhere between a PM9 and a G30. This way ankle, pocket and IWB carry would all be very doable, and retention holster OC would be too, all without giving up much in either power or shootability.

Jeff Cooper

“The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.”
— Guns & Ammo, January 2002

I still have that issue. It's interesting that when that article was published, he had almost entirely decided that competition style sight picture shooting was nearly always the best way to shoot in combat, whereas at the time frame he was discussing in the 40's, he preached in favor of one handed point shooting. He was a whore for money, and he made it by selling a complicated system he could teach people, even though it falls apart without constant and intensive practice which most have neither the time nor money to keep up on. In my opinion it has cost lives, as is easily evident by the atrocious level of combat hits from police officers trained to focus on their sights.

It is no less noteworthy that a group comprised of multiple generations of people now believe that a small capacity and a manual safety are desireable for some reason, despite the fact a reasonably knowledgeable 3rd grader would likely be able to make a better judgement and pick a double stack DA/SA or striker fired gun. Even Larry Vickers, known for being pretty much the king of 1911's has stated that the capacity is a shortcoming of the design. I am thankful as hell that I am no longer a Jeff Cooper fan, and that I no longer care about brain washing, stupid magazine articles.

 

[robin.kevin]

I have large hands and dont like the small pistols. Not to mention I dont like short barrel guns, they become too inaccurate with the shorter sight radius. If I am going to carry I want to be sure I can put the bullet right where its needed and not hit a friendly target.

Also on the capacity issue... If you need more than 8-10 rounds then just throw rocks. My XD holds 12+1 but I never intend on using that many. The only time I see where I may is in a home invasion where I have many threats entering my home, even then I dont expect to use that full amount, 2-3 shots at most per target which is usually 2 chest 1 head. However I use sense, if they drop with the first then let them lay... I just personally dont understand why people think they need to carry 26+ rounds of ammo on them.

 

[irish52084]

Also on the capacity issue... If you need more than 8-10 rounds then just throw rocks. My XD holds 12+1 but I never intend on using that many. The only time I see where I may is in a home invasion where I have many threats entering my home, even then I dont expect to use that full amount, 2-3 shots at most per target which is usually 2 chest 1 head. However I use sense, if they drop with the first then let them lay... I just personally dont understand why people think they need to carry 26+ rounds of ammo on them.[/QUOTE]

The reason I carry a gun in the first place is because I don' t know what situation might be presented on any given day. If 99% of the time you only need 8 shots to stop an attacker, what about the other 1% of the time? Is that 1% worth your life or the life of someone else? I like 1911's I've had 3 good ones and will buy another when funds allow, but I'm really tired of hearing this argument of: "if I need more than 7-8 rounds I'm doing it wrong or I shouldn't be there" etc... As far as I'm concerned, more rounds is better than less rounds. I don't even know why this is argued. If a 1911 could maintain it's slim and comfortable single stack profile, but hold 13-14 rounds without a mag sticking 3-4 inches out of the magwell, everyone would say it was much better than the 7-8 round capacity version of the 1911.

I didn't mean the above to bash on you for wanting a 1911, so please don't take it that way. I think an amscor would be an excellent starting point for building yourself a nice 1911.

 

[Michigander]

A double stack sub compact will fit large hands just fine, even offering a 3 fingered grip with extensions or full sized magazines. Even a longer barrel can be dropped into many of them. I have moderate hands and have trouble putting a good grip on a G29 frame, but I can still manage. Think about the versatility of a G29 or 30. 10mm or .45, little or big, long barrel or short barrel. It's a gun you can pocket carry, or even load up to defend yourself against bears. No loss of power needed, just as much as ever with plenty of concealability.

As to hitting what you aim at, if you think that as a concealed carrier you are likely to need to use your sights, or that you are likely to have to shoot beyond 15 feet to protect yourself, you are almost certainly mistaken. Within the vast majority of SD situations, hip firing and fast paced point shooting are what you're looking at. Either that or a lot of trying to get a sight picture you're not likely to get well on a fast moving target. A 2.5"-3.8" barrel will accomplish this just about as well as anything else, with the only problem being a variably lowered velocity. If you'd like, you can even get a laser.

If you have any friends who can let you try a smaller gun, just try gripping it really tight with one hand, pointing it like your finger at a target 10 or 15 feet away, and squeezing the trigger as fast as you can. You should notice a very tight grouping.

As to capacity, I don't know how much you value your life, but for me, I want more ammo on me, ready to go than I can possibly use. I also want to be able to shoot lethal assailants until either they drop to the ground and stop moving or I do, with little likely need for reloading. As the sayings go "when in doubt, empty the magazine" and "don't stop shooting until you see brains".

 

[robin.kevin]

I dont like for my fingers to fall off the grip, I try both service and sub compact XDs before I bought my service model. As to distance I understand that you wont always be firing at 15ft but I carry not just for my protection but the protect of others as well. I may not be that close to their threat but still want to be able to protect them.

Having 14 years of martial arts training in many different styles if a knife or gun was pulled on me at point blank range I would no even think to draw my firearm as my training would have be quickly disarming them by hand. This I know very well as my training has never failed me. See when a threat arises you will react the way you train. One actually almost blanks out and training overrides the minds thought process. Its a true statement that you fight the way you train.

Back to the subject at hand, my family is not always going to be within 5-7 feet of me there for the threat may be closer to them then me and I still have to be able to protect them. This goes not only for my family, its true for friends and strangers alike. If some crazy pulls a gun and opens fire I plan to address that threat and save lives. Thats why I care and that is why I know I want a large frame sidearm with no shorter then 4in barrel.

On another note, I have a snub nose .38 its a great pocket pistol but its range is not much more than that of my hands or knives.

Thank you for your point of view, hopefully you know my stand point as well. Its always good to know how different people have a different point of view on what a defense weapon is.

 

[robin.kevin]

I didn't mean the above to bash on you for wanting a 1911, so please don't take it that way. I think an amscor would be an excellent starting point for building yourself a nice 1911.

I didnt take your post as bashing the 1911 as much as I did the other that point out Jeff Copper. I am not a fan nor dont think I have ever read any of his stuff but everyone has different idea of what is needed for self defense. Everyone has different weapons and different training.

Also I do agree to a certain point on your views in your first post. A 1911 is a little large for what it holds. I say this cause many wheel guns are only a few short in rounds from the 1911 and are a lot more dependable. The only downside to a wheel gun in my eyes is too bulky to conceal unless its a snub nose, to have the same sight radius on a wheel gun as you do on a auto you add at least 2 inches due to grip design.

 

[NMBill]

Racking the XD Slide

Years ago...no, make that eons ago, when I first learned to open champagne, I was taught to hold the cork and turn the bottle. Turning the bottle gives you much more leverage, than trying to turn the tiny cork. When my wife first tried to put a motorcycle up on a center stand, she swore she was too weak to do it. I showed her that it was all about technique. She was trying to lift the bike, but I showed her how to steady the bike and use her weight on the stand to rock the bike up. Once again, more leverage and she can do it (almost) like a champ now.

When I taught my wife to rack (her XD Subcompact), I taught her to hold the slide and push on the grip. Once again, much more leverage. Same technique worked on two of her lady friends and they can all now rack their slides fairly effortlessly. Though I (and most men) have the strength to rack the slide by holding the gun and pulling on the slide, I use the same method I taught my wife. Leverage is your friend.

 

[robin.kevin]

Years ago...no, make that eons ago, when I first learned to open champagne, I was taught to hold the cork and turn the bottle. Turning the bottle gives you much more leverage, than trying to turn the tiny cork. When my wife first tried to put a motorcycle up on a center stand, she swore she was too weak to do it. I showed her that it was all about technique. She was trying to lift the bike, but I showed her how to steady the bike and use her weight on the stand to rock the bike up. Once again, more leverage and she can do it (almost) like a champ now.

When I taught my wife to rack (her XD Subcompact), I taught her to hold the slide and push on the grip. Once again, much more leverage. Same technique worked on two of her lady friends and they can all now rack their slides fairly effortlessly. Though I (and most men) have the strength to rack the slide by holding the gun and pulling on the slide, I use the same method I taught my wife. Leverage is your friend.

Thats how I rack pistols anyhow. I can rack it and hold for as long as I like almost. However because of it being so stiff I tend to loose my grip on the slide more times then not before getting it all the way back where I want it... Also in a one hand drill its even hard to rack if not all but impossible. I believe this is something you should prepare for. There will be times when you might have a broke hand in a cast. Or what if your attacker has injury your hand. I like to be prepare for anything. Its a petty thing I admit but its just one issue I have with my XD. The other being that it doesn't really fit my POU as a conceal carry weapon.

 

[NMBill]

Thats how I rack pistols anyhow. I can rack it and hold for as long as I like almost. However because of it being so stiff I tend to loose my grip on the slide more times then not before getting it all the way back where I want it... Also in a one hand drill its even hard to rack if not all but impossible. I believe this is something you should prepare for. There will be times when you might have a broke hand in a cast. Or what if your attacker has injury your hand. I like to be prepare for anything. Its a petty thing I admit but its just one issue I have with my XD. The other being that it doesn't really fit my POU as a conceal carry weapon.

Agreed. Practice might not make perfect, but at least it gives you a fighting chance.

 

[1911er]

Hello,

Currently I have a XD 40 service model which I love due to high cap, safety, and overall feel. However I am also a lover of 1911's even though I dont own one. My question pertains to conceal carry, do you guys / ladies believe the 1911 would be any easier to conceal then the XD or would they be about the same. I hope to get my permit this year if funding allows.

I have be troublesome with the XD being hard to conceal. I have a 3 slot pancake holster as IWB holster just wasnt comfortable to me and usually the pancake can hide the XD pretty good but being so large it does print a little. Was thinking about selling the XD in efforts to get a nice RI 1911, if it would be easier to conceal.

Give me your thoughts and opinions if you would.

Thank you,
Kevin

Thinking 1911!!! consider officers lightweight style or compact (3 in Barrel ) .I love mine ,carry it in a high rise forward cant Bianchi but it does only carry six in original mag but it will hold longer mags. just looks funny with a 10 shot single stack hanging out