mrjam2jab
Regular Member
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illinois reciprocity bill introduced
- Thread starter devildoc5
- Start date
PracticalTactical
Regular Member
I know a lot of people who only carry when travelling, because they feel safe around town and at home. The UT permit is great for that, as is the AZ permit.
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awnuts
Regular Member
Sure but you still got to be on the road quite a bit leaving the state to make it worth it. And I agree with NM rejecting because of the lesser requirements to get a Utah. There needs to be a mandatory training session thats alike across all states. But then again an all state CCW would be nicer. Just like our drivers license is accepted across the country.I went through 16 hours of class and range qualifying and I think if you really want a CCW you should work to get it. I support open carry also but it depends on the situation. I remember when I first moved out here from chicago I was at a gas station and saw a guy with twin Ruger revolvers on his rig. I thought at first WOW! Then he saw me looking and all I could do was compliment him. Then later I found out we had open carry here. Its refreshing to be able to enjoy freedom.
awnuts
Regular Member
Agreed about out here sir. But just transporting a gun in IL is a bitch. You feel like a criminal hiding just to go to a local range or do some hunting. Plus you need a FOID card to buy ammo and guns. You cant order ammo online for the best prices and are stuck paying whatever you can get. And theres a mandatory wait to get your new gun unlike here we just go buy it and take it home. That state is one of the worst states for gun owners. Which is why I chose to retire in ABQ.
Why have mandatory training? I've taken the non-resident UT class and I was not impressed with it, especially the range time. It isn't training to shoot properly. It is more laws than how to defend yourself. I could spend that money on better training on how to shoot. And in that range class, the instructor should just say, "When you defend yourself, shut up. Do not talk to police. Wait to talk to your lawyer." There, less than 30 seconds. Now, how to shoot should be the primary focus, completely voluntary.
Every state has different carry laws, which makes it hard when you travel. Perhaps there should be no restrictions. Self defense is not a privilege, it is a right.
MKEgal
Regular Member
I've got a UT permit, too, & I have to ask... what range time?protias said:
Ours was 50 rounds, but wasn't scored and it we were shooting at a 8.5"x11"!
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Mr H
Regular Member
Beat me to it.
awnuts
Regular Member
I just think that if you conceal carry you need to be held to a higher standard and level of experience.Anyone can pick up a gun and carry it but can they be responsible enough and ready enough to use the right judgement in a situation.These things you get from training and practice. The class I attended was not just laws but instruction on usage and carry.With additional classes on defense and situations. This is my point that education is the best for being responsible.Yes we have a right to carry but we also have a mission to be responsible to each other and ourselves. The last thing I think any of us really want to do is shoot anyone. The class I attended was not a waste of my time nor money and I learned a few things that changed my mind.
Mr H
Regular Member
So (and this has been my question for a while)...
A Maryland resident, with no realistic chance of a home state LTCF and interests in IL on a regular basis, will (with a Utah NR permit) fall under the new statute and be able to transport within the state of IL without issue?
I'm still far from clear about "carry" on this, though...
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amzbrady
Regular Member
After growing up in Illinois, and being able to leave and see other states, the gun laws are just "one" other reason not to reside in that state. My Mom still lives in Illinois and thats still not reason enough to go visit Illinois. I send her plane tickets and make her come to Washington. We have mountains and ocean to look at instead of corn fields and john deere festivels.
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Why? I can open carry in WI and a lot of other states without a permit or training, why would concealed carry be any different? Do you support mandatory training and licensing for reading a Bible?
awnuts
Regular Member
I dont think that reading a bible has anything to do with the topic.But as gun owners we should be responsible for what we do with such.Education and training compliments what we do.To me people that dont educate themselves cast a bad light on the ones that do. Lets go this way, you can drive your car in all of the USA also but you need a license showing you know the basics in road safety and responsibility to others on the road. Just because you can do something doesnt mean you can do it safely or responsibly. Owning a gun and safety extends way more than just I can. And if you was not concerned as a user as to laws and methods of use I doubt you would be here reading this forum. I dont think you need a license for open carry never said that. But I feel more comfy knowing that if I'm with someone carrying they have some education or training on what they are doing. Just like if I get into a car with you I hope you can drive safely. We have a responsiblity to ourselves and each other.
ccwinstructor
Centurion
The Constitution explicitly protects both reading a bible and carrying a gun.
Once you start restricting rights by administrative and legal requirements for training and licenses, the right is no longer a right. We have seen these schemes used to radically restrict the constitutional rights of citizens in numerous states, as part of a long term scheme to gradually regulate them out of existance.
We have not seen the unregulated exercise of these rights result in any increase in crime or accidents. It is up to those who promote these schemes to show that they do not infringe upon our constitutional rights and that they offer some overwhelming good to the nation, considerably greater than their rather large social and individual costs.
I have not seen any proof of benefit, other than the emotional rants of those who speculate that the sky is falling, and that the "blood will run in the streets". It simply does not happen.
Once you start restricting rights by administrative and legal requirements for training and licenses, the right is no longer a right. We have seen these schemes used to radically restrict the constitutional rights of citizens in numerous states, as part of a long term scheme to gradually regulate them out of existance.
We have not seen the unregulated exercise of these rights result in any increase in crime or accidents. It is up to those who promote these schemes to show that they do not infringe upon our constitutional rights and that they offer some overwhelming good to the nation, considerably greater than their rather large social and individual costs.
I have not seen any proof of benefit, other than the emotional rants of those who speculate that the sky is falling, and that the "blood will run in the streets". It simply does not happen.
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paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
The difference is that the right to bear arms is a right, the privilege to drive a car is a privilege.
Don't get me wrong, I support people getting training of their own choosing, I just do not believe we should mandate it. I open carry wherever legal almost every day and technically have never had any formal training. I have worked with some friends and learned stuff and go to a range but don't have a certificate and have never paid for a class.
I know WI firearm laws better than most cops do because I care to be legal.
PracticalTactical
Regular Member
If driving were a privilege, it could be revoked at any time for any reason. Like if the DMV Kommisar wanted to date your daughter and you said no, he could revoke your license.
Or if you wrote something edgy on a forum, they could revoke your license.
Driver's licenses are 'shall issue' and they can only deny or revoke if allowed to by law, and with due process.
There are court cases where they say driving is a right, and subject to loss with due process like any other right. It's like saying freedom from imprisonment is a privilege because there are circumstances where you can be imprisoned.
Driving is NOT a privilege.
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awnuts
Regular Member
Far as I know driving in evey state is a privlege. The states issue the license to let you drive.You need to follow each states laws as well. Owning a gun is a right, its in our constitution but driving isnt. As for carrying a gun each state again has its own laws just like driving. Our constitution affords us the right to own but doesnt address the issue of carry. Hence why the states can issue or not issue ccw or can or not control open carry. States do pull your drivers license in enough violations and can pull a ccw.
awnuts
Regular Member
And my thought is what if you didnt get training? Any at all? Just picked up a gun and started carrying it? Or just hopped in a car and started driving? Again the point is the ccw class isnt the end all for training but it does give you the info you need to get a license. Just like driving a car you have to practice for a test. And even though you havent had any formal training at some point you educated yourself on gun safety or laws. Yes people with training and certs still get into accidents but less likely than if no testing or training was used. Myself when I drive I hope everyone has a license and some experience on sharing the road. And in carrying a gun I hope everyone has the knowlege of gun safety and use.
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
That would be my right, just like I can go out and give a speech without knowing what I'm talking about or read my Bible with no training. There are rights.
In WI, I can open carry with no training or permit, I am just saying, why do I need training and a permit to cover my firearm in the winter?
Mr H
Regular Member
The point here, which many have touched on (but I don't recall a "hit"), is about the commensurate "responsibility" that is expected with the exercise of a particular right (OR privilege, for that matter).
Just to adress the two main points here...
We can speak as we wish, but the responsible thing is not to yell FIRE in a crowded theater. We may worship as we wish, but there are limits to what is considered appropriate in polite society. Free association can likewise be held to a social standard where it might abridge the rights of others.
We can possess (though in some states not carry--but that's a topic for another thread) a firearm, but the RESPONSIBLE gun owner will get some degree of safety training (whether formal or informal) and an understanding of the weapon, his/her surroundings, situations, etc. Also incumbent on the gun owner is safe storage and other reasonable precautions.
Driving, pet ownership, and other "privileges" are more regulated, and IMO should be. Revocation of a privilege should be a much lesser standard than that of a fundamental right.
That said, I think we've strayed a tad from the OP...
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