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Stopped by Kent PD today

sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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heresolong said:
I was pulled over years ago by an officer who was all jolly and happy as he informed me that he hadn't had an opportunity to write a helmet ticket in weeks. When he asked me to remove my helmet I asked if I was under arrest (since they have no right to search you other than for officer safety and there was clearly no firearm tucked up under my beanie helmet). Immediately the joking stopped, he didn't say another word as he wrote the ticket, and when he showed up in court he lied about various aspects of the stop and told the judge that I was belligerent and confrontational. Yeah. They use politeness as a tool. It's part of their job.
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Because according to some standing up against unwarranted intrusion is belligerent and confrontational. :cry: I have had many encounters like that. And then I have had a few (mostly with WSP, and some of our deputies) where they were polite understanding calmly professionally acknowledged that's your right. Because of The absolute honesty in Seargant Thompson's report the judge dismissed 2 tickets of someone I am close too.

Unfortunately I think if more and more people took their cases to court or requested copies of the police reports they'd realize how much larger of a problem this is than they think.

amlevin said:
And it's worth 12 points in Scrabble ;)
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:lol:
 
MKEgal

MKEgal

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Citizen said:
I suppose you could screw with them by consensually providing the identity document, then in the next breath say, "I revoke my consent. Give it back." If they don't, then you could claim an illegal seizure.
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I've said this before: I like the way you think.
Have to remember that one if I'm stopped again, esp. if I've remembered my recorder.

Citizen said:
:) Are you saying cops is knuckle-draggers who can't think conceptually? :)
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No... :p
In fact, I think if LEOs were asked "do you think people have a right to self-defense?" most would say yes.

But because of their experience (interacting with BGs & looking for crime) their perceptions are biased, so that recognition of a basic human right gets set aside or overwhelmed when they see a pistol in a holster on someone's hip.
Kinda like how they forget their training about RAS & the 4A so often.
 
Dave_pro2a

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heresolong said:
I was pulled over years ago by an officer who was all jolly and happy as he informed me that he hadn't had an opportunity to write a helmet ticket in weeks.

When he asked me to remove my helmet I asked if I was under arrest (since they have no right to search you other than for officer safety and there was clearly no firearm tucked up under my beanie helmet).

Immediately the joking stopped, he didn't say another word as he wrote the ticket, and when he showed up in court he lied about various aspects of the stop and told the judge that I was belligerent and confrontational.

Yeah. They use politeness as a tool. It's part of their job.
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A big +1 to this. I've had 2 similar instances, once where the cop lied to a suspect that I witnessed do a crime.

Pretty much everything they do is a result of training (official training, and 'unofficial training').
 
A

Aaron1124

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kenzmad said:
Which Safeway was this? I live near the one on the corner of Kent Kangley and 132nd. I have never had an issue at this one. I am not sure what I would have done if in your shoes, although when I am out i usually have one of my kids with me. I don't think I would start a 4A discussion with the PD if my kids are with me. Lots to think about on this one.

kenzmad
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That's the one I was at. I live in the apartments right across the street, and I go to the store multiple times a week. This was the first time anyone ever called the police. Maybe it was my abundance of outlaw facial hair.
 
A

Aaron1124

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Dave_pro2a said:
So if I call the police on you, right now. Let's say I claim you are growing pot, and I give them your full name and home address.

Then you think that gives the police the right to knock down your door. Detain you. And start to investigate this alleged crime that I reported by calling the police.

Holy crap, that's twisted. It would make getting revenge on people you don't like really, really easy.
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That's not what happened, though.
 
A

Aaron1124

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Also, not every officer who is polite and respectful is trying to trick you. 1/2 of my immediate family is, or was, in law enforcement, and I can say that with absolute certainty that not all of them are out to violate your rights. I think there is a lack of training that needs to be addressed, however.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Aaron1124 said:
Also, not every officer who is polite and respectful is trying to trick you. 1/2 of my immediate family is, or was, in law enforcement, and I can say that with absolute certainty that not all of them are out to violate your rights. I think there is a lack of training that needs to be addressed, however.
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When Tyler and I were having coffee awhile back two officers came in because someone called. One (who was trying to instigate me into doing something stupid when had handcuffed me on a prior incident) said "Oh it's you" turned around and walked back out. The other was polite and conversed with us never asked for ID (see refusing prior does help) and even thanked me the knowledge they gained because of my stand on my 4th and because of OC.
 
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C

Citizen

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Aaron1124 said:
I think we're nit pickin' just a little bit now. :)
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Me with SVG's "your" word?

Not at all. It possibly indicates the cops think they're not on the same level as citizens, an artificial distinction full of unpleasant implications. Such has already been observed in other ways.

I've had the same, "That's your right, sir" out of a cop. What utter BS. Of course its my right! Its so obvious it doesn't need to be said. So, why would a cop say it? Why would a cop use the distinction "your" instead of "a recognized right"? Instead of "everybody's right"?

Why would a cop say "thats [anybody's] right" at all. Why not, "Yes, sir. We understand" as an acknowledgement? I'm tempted to reply to the next cop who says it to me, "Who made you the law-giver to go around declaring what my rights are?"

Fair's fair. Police go around detecting little inconsistencies in people's answers for investigative purposes; we can, too.
 
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A

Aaron1124

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He was probably just informing me that he's acknowledging to be aware of "my right" ("my" -- because I was the subject in discussion at the time of the incident). IMHO you may be over analyzing it. Just my opinion though.
 
TechnoWeenie

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Aaron1124 said:
I also don't see how respectfully asking for ID is unacceptable behavior.
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Ditto.

It's all in the attitude and demeanor.

I've been approached a few times. Mostly a non-issue.

When the officers are polite and professional, I'm more inclined to do them a favor by letting them see my ID.

When they're being pricks, I'll let them fight me for it. Only once has my ID been 'demanded', I was being unlawfully detained at the time, and was 'ordered' to do so (not asked).
 
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Aaron1124

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NavyLT said:
Why is it doing them a favor to provide them with ID?
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If it's not inconveniencing me, then I am glad to do what I can to make their job easier. It's hard enough as it is. Who knows what the guy said when he called 911. The cops probably figured it was just a citizen minding his business, but nonetheless..
 
K

kenzmad

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Aaron1124 said:
That's the one I was at. I live in the apartments right across the street, and I go to the store multiple times a week. This was the first time anyone ever called the police. Maybe it was my abundance of outlaw facial hair.
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doesn't matter how you dress or how much facial hair you have. I have had nothing but no comments from anyone there. actually the cute redhead in Alaska Credit Union asked me what I was carrying, told her a Glock 26 and she replied "I have a baby Eagle" we talked a bit and I told her about this site and how she needs to get her CPL. Nice gal, too bad I am too old. I actually was appoached by the Safeway manager about a month ago at the register. He asks if he can talk to me once I am done. I am thinking, here we go but he proceeds to tell me that I am now an elite shopper and I get the 10 cent fuel discount all the time. whew that was a close one, he didn't even glance at the g26 on my hip.

kenzmad

kenzmad
 
A

Aaron1124

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kenzmad said:
doesn't matter how you dress or how much facial hair you have. I have had nothing but no comments from anyone there. actually the cute redhead in Alaska Credit Union asked me what I was carrying, told her a Glock 26 and she replied "I have a baby Eagle" we talked a bit and I told her about this site and how she needs to get her CPL. Nice gal, too bad I am too old. I actually was appoached by the Safeway manager about a month ago at the register. He asks if he can talk to me once I am done. I am thinking, here we go but he proceeds to tell me that I am now an elite shopper and I get the 10 cent fuel discount all the time. whew that was a close one, he didn't even glance at the g26 on my hip.

kenzmad

kenzmad
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The store staff is very cool. I know a lot of the employees -- including the assistant manager, Melissa. The store manager is Michael, unless they switched. All of the staff know me very well, so I know it was a customer in there who called.
 
A

Aaron1124

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NavyLT said:
Actually, I think it would have been easier for them to not provide them with ID. Then they would not have to copy down your info and would not have had to call in and wait for your info to come back on the radio. In addition, the dispatcher would have been saved the trouble of running your info as well. It seems like, if you really think about it, it caused more people wasted effort, resources and time by giving them something unnecessary to do. Although I suppose you did provide some job security to a few people. In Washington, we are only required to identify ourselves to police, even just verbally, for the purposes of being issued a citation or custodial arrest.
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That's interesting! What about traffic infractions, and the officer asking for your valid drivers license? You'd either have to hand that over, or be cited, right? About seven years ago, in Federal Way, my wife was actually arrested, because she was driving without a license, and she failed to show any ID. They said it would have only been an infraction if she had any government ID, but since she didn't, it was a misdemeanor. Of course, when she went to court, it was reduced to an infraction, because she obtained her license by then, and brought it to court.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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Aaron1124 said:
That's interesting! What about traffic infractions, and the officer asking for your valid drivers license? You'd either have to hand that over, or be cited, right? About seven years ago, in Federal Way, my wife was actually arrested, because she was driving without a license, and she failed to show any ID. They said it would have only been an infraction if she had any government ID, but since she didn't, it was a misdemeanor. Of course, when she went to court, it was reduced to an infraction, because she obtained her license by then, and brought it to court.
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Absolutely NOT the same thing.
 
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