well need help writing a letter to emagin in canton

rvd4now said:

i got the reply but he does not seem to know the law,


Demetrius, as a fellow CPL holder, I am all about our right to own and carry firearms so truly I understand your concerns and passion concerning this topic. However, Emagine Canton is a Pistol Free Area as defined by the State of Michigan (see below) and that is not up for debate. Emagine Canton has over 3800 seats and is clearly a place where guns are not allowed. In addition, there are no laws that specifically state that we have to post a sign of this fact (some burden is on the gun owner to know this information before entering). Please refer to several excepts I found from the Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) web site below (key points highlighted in red). One of the questions answered on MCRGO’s web site even specifically addresses an 18 screen theater and the answer confirms what we already know – guns are not allowed. Lastly, although there are no laws prohibiting “open carry” on the books, most people in our society (even if they are fundamentally wrong in their beliefs) get extremely uneasy at the sight of a gun (even when holstered). So even if we weren’t a Pistol Free Zone, we’d still prohibit them as we are in the business of entertaining folks, not making them scared or nervous.



We have informed you (politely) that we do not want you to bring your gun into our complex and any future attempts by you to do so will unfortunately result in a call to local law enforcement to have a “No Trespass” notice issued to you (and I’d truly hate to see that happen). We do appreciate your business but you’ll have to visit us without your gun. Thank you.



Chris Brandt

Sr. V.P. of Operations

Emagine Entertainment/Cinema Hollywood

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Post his email I would like to respond to his reply.

Venator said:

Post his email I would like to respond to his reply.

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chrisb@emagine-entertainment.com

stainless1911 said:

Correct. Perhaps you should direct him to the MSP legal update that explains that open carry with a CPL in these areas is legal.

Also, you should correct his assumption that most people are uneasy at the sight of an OCer. They absolutely, are not. Most people are neutral.

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o shall need help makeing a reply email.. also im thinking i should see if hes up for a sit down meeting..

If he will meet with you, that's great, bring someone with you who is on point with the laws.

Right or wrong, you're not going to change his mind. Cut your losses.

I disagree. I don't see him honoring your rights, but the responsibility and opportunity to educate him has fallen in your lap. Make the most of it. Since he has a CPL, he is more likely to listen to you. If you can get a face to face, especially with someone who can really give him a rundown of OC, then you have someone in a management/leadership position who is now knowledgeable on the laws. This guy will most likely continue to work in various management positions for the rest of his career.

Shadow Bear said:

Right or wrong, you're not going to change his mind. Cut your losses.

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understandable but is he asking me not to show up because of a law he thinks is correct or because of there rules... im unsure..

He is asserting his rule on an incorrect interpretation of the law.

rvd4now said:

i got the reply but he does not seem to know the law,


Demetrius, as a fellow CPL holder, I am all about our right to own and carry firearms so truly I understand your concerns and passion concerning this topic. However, Emagine Canton is a Pistol Free Area as defined by the State of Michigan (see below) and that is not up for debate. Emagine Canton has over 3800 seats and is clearly a place where guns are not allowed. In addition, there are no laws that specifically state that we have to post a sign of this fact (some burden is on the gun owner to know this information before entering). Please refer to several excepts I found from the Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) web site below (key points highlighted in red). One of the questions answered on MCRGO’s web site even specifically addresses an 18 screen theater and the answer confirms what we already know – guns are not allowed. Lastly, although there are no laws prohibiting “open carry” on the books, most people in our society (even if they are fundamentally wrong in their beliefs) get extremely uneasy at the sight of a gun (even when holstered). So even if we weren’t a Pistol Free Zone, we’d still prohibit them as we are in the business of entertaining folks, not making them scared or nervous.



We have informed you (politely) that we do not want you to bring your gun into our complex and any future attempts by you to do so will unfortunately result in a call to local law enforcement to have a “No Trespass” notice issued to you (and I’d truly hate to see that happen). We do appreciate your business but you’ll have to visit us without your gun. Thank you.



Chris Brandt

Sr. V.P. of Operations

Emagine Entertainment/Cinema Hollywood

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I love how he starts by understanding the writers concern and is even on his side when it comes to gun rights, but then by the end of the first paragraph he is finishing making his crap sandwich and in the 2nd paragraph he is forcing it down the writers throat!

rvd4now said:

chrisb@emagine-entertainment.com

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Thanks.

Dear Mr. Brandt:

I recently read your email response in regards to firearms in your theaters.

You mentioned that state law prohibits firearms in entertainment facilities that have a seating capacity over 2500. You are mistaken; this statute only refers to concealed firearms. A person with a concealed pistol license (CPL) can possess a firearm in these facilities if their firearm is carried openly. This exemption is listed in MCL 750.234d (see below). This statute is also backed up with Attorney General Opinion 7097, which states that a person with a CPL can openly carry a firearm in all places listed in 750.234d.

The Michigan State Police has released a legal update explaining this issue. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

I would also like to address your belief that the sight of an openly carried firearm somehow frightens the public. Over the last four years thousands of people have open carried in Michigan and their experiences are quite different than what you project. Most are neutral and many even support the practice. I have never seen a customer leave a business that I was openly carrying in.

While it is true that some people may be uncomfortable with firearms, so too are some that are uncomfortable with a group of young black men or people of middle-east descent, yet you don’t ban these groups of people. Some people are afraid of all sorts of things. This is an individual reaction that they must deal with themselves. Some people would be offended by someone wearing a political shirt or expressing their support of abortion. The mere exercising of a recognized right may offend/scare some, but that is part of being in a free society.

Let’s talk economics. Recently Starbuck’s has recognized their customer’s right to bear arms in their stores and their sales increased 7%, even in this economic downfall.

Many major corporations follow state laws in regards to customers carrying firearms. These include: Wal-Mart, Lowes, Best Buy, Home Depot, Bob Evans, Shop and Save, Cabelas, Barnes and Nobles, Olive Garden, to name a few.

All recognize the potential market they have with law abiding firearm owners. All these businesses realize that the benefits of following state laws in regards to firearm law far exceed any projected negatives. They realize that armed law-abiding citizens are not a risk and that any of your projective negative impacts are not occurring in their businesses.

Michigan has close to 300,000 CPL holders, all potential customers. A prudent business in this economic climate would consider every strategy to increase sales. One low risk strategy is to remove your policy on banning firearms.

Finally you mention you are a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment supporter, yet your words and policy reflect otherwise. I suggest your company review their firearm ban in light of state law and the positive economic results that such a change would make to your bottom line.
I would be happy to discuss this further and answer any questions you may have.

Thanks you for your time.

BGJ

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

MCL 28.425o

Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

Shadow Bear said:

Right or wrong, you're not going to change his mind. Cut your losses.

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I've gotten large business to change their minds on firearm bans. Not all is lost.

Venator,

Excellent response. You countered his assumptions with fact. You also set him straight on the law. Regardless of whether he changes the policy or not, you did your part to help in the fight!

Very well written.

Yes, the two emails were very well written. Although I personally believe his mind is already made up, there is a chance he will reconsider. BTW, his statement that a cpl carrier should know the law was strange coming from him, seeing as he obviously did not know the law.

DrTodd said:

Yes, the two emails were very well written. Although I personally believe his mind is already made up, there is a chance he will reconsider. BTW, his statement that a cpl carrier should know the law was strange coming from him, seeing as he obviously did not know the law.

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Looking for typos before I send. Suggestions?

Yes, put the typos on words you want to emphasize, makes people notice.

A great deal of people seem to think thet you are a cop when OCing, they arent automatically afraid.

Venator said:

Looking for typos before I send. Suggestions?

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Since the issue was the "entertainment facility" portion of MCL 28.425o, I would use AG opinion 7113, instead of 7097.

ETA, on the other hand, keep 7097 in there, in case they try the "theater" argument.

i am replying to his email to day what do you think, "if theres errors please fix."

Hello,

After reading your email I notice you quoted MCL 28.234 letter F which states, An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
This law is used for conceal carry, what I was doing was open carrying.

The law that allows me to open carry in pistol free zone is MCL 750.234D 2, C, Sec. 234d. States.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3)A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both

I have also attached a link to the Michigan state police legal update, which states that open carry in an pistol free zone is legal http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

please review the information and inform me of your posted policy. As a fellow concealed pistol owner you should be very up to date on MICHIGAN FIREARM LAWS “especially Michigan pistol free zones and laws”. If it is your theaters policy to ban firearms “my 2 amendment right ” please post it and also be able to provide it if some one shall ask for it, so that this does not happen again.

I look forward to hearing from you again, please feel free to call or email me at

313 595 ***
rvd4***@yahoo.com
Demetrius ****

rvd4now; said:

As a fellow concealed pistol owner you should be very up to date on MICHIGAN FIREARM LAWS “especially Michigan pistol free zones and laws”.

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Touche sir, touche.