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Getting legislation for EMS to carry firearms
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
This is where I would stand on the issue as well.
Jay
Regular Member
Okay buddy I have no problem with you disagreeing, but besides just saying "NO" how about NO but if you did this....
Now in my county you are never "off duty" well there is a caveat Example: Last night the on duty ambulance crew was sent on a call ten minutes later there was a second call in town. I was alerted to the call while I was carrying my two way radio while I was in the supermarket I left and went to the building to get the ambulance in civilian clothes because this practice is allowed. Actually with difficulties in staffing among volunteer services most second and third calls are staffed by volunteers that go about there daily lives.
So where do you draw the line between what you consider on-duty and off-duty. If I am carrying around my radio in anticipation that a second or third crew call comes, and I would respond is that on-duty? This is the issue that I am having with this.
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Yep....you're blowing your support Jay and it won't make it past committee.
ON DUTY is OK and even that will get opposition...as you've already seen.
The "I'm always on duty" argument is old hat. LEO's have been using it for years. If you want to CC off duty, get a CHP.
There isn't much wiggle room there.
Marco
Regular Member
1+
Even though I could benefit (would need to join a vol rescue squad) I can't support the off duty/clock special privilege.
I don't support it for LE/Corrections/ CA and don't wish to add EMS to the list.
I opposed HR 218 because I knew LE wouldn't through their support behind removing restrictions for everyday folks.
However, I do appauld your efforts.
If you'd just want to keep it to while on duty I might support, depending on how it was worded.
I'd rather see a law that says if you CC'd illegally but the need arose for lawful SD, there would be no prosecution for the CC offense if the use or diplay was justified or acquitted.
Jay
Regular Member
What about unrestricted carry if you are in responding distance of the organization you work/volunteer for or within the county of the organization?
If you go anywhere else in the commonwealth CCW is needed & restriction applies.
If you go anywhere else in the commonwealth CCW is needed & restriction applies.
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Marco
Regular Member
So, while attending the UVA/GMU/VCU etc... game/visting a friend on campus or at the hosptial even thou you aren't working you should be allowed to carry but not me/us, if they get their regs passed?
So, while attending your childs play at school you should be allowed to carry but not me/us?
So, while having a parent teacher conference you should be allowed to carry but not me/us?
So, while paying your parking ticket/going to court you should be allowed to carry but not me/us?
So, while vactioning at home or your day off you should be allowed to carry anywhere you please but not me/us?
So, while shopping at a store that is posted no firearms you should be allowed to carry without facing possible trespassing charges unlike the rest of us?
So, while getting mail/shipping from the PO you should be allowed to carry but not me/us?
LE/CA/CO's shouldn't be allowed to carry every/anywhere unless they are working getting paid(at the time) neither should anyone else, unless everyone who can legally own can.
None of those in the protected classes listed (not listed) are special, their lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of the none sworn.
Instead of trying to get another protected class of civil employees let's get unrestricted/less rectricted carry for everyone.
Just because you may go somewhere that might be dangerous doesn't mean you have anymore right to be armed than anyone else.
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Jay
Regular Member
I see your point and I suppose it would not be fair, but you would support "unrestricted carry" while "on" duty?
Marco
Regular Member
Jay
Regular Member
Jay, I've commented enough on this so I'll leave it with this thought.
This started out to cure some ambiguity in the EMS rules. One says it's OK to carry but there was a hole in the ruling.
The Bill was to correct that hole and become a mini workplace law.
You've become hooked on the idea of CC without a permit. If that's how your group wants to present the bill, it's your decision. Just make sure you understand that this is a tough sell without the CC provision and pretty much a doormat with it.
This started out to cure some ambiguity in the EMS rules. One says it's OK to carry but there was a hole in the ruling.
The Bill was to correct that hole and become a mini workplace law.
You've become hooked on the idea of CC without a permit. If that's how your group wants to present the bill, it's your decision. Just make sure you understand that this is a tough sell without the CC provision and pretty much a doormat with it.
Jay
Regular Member
You are confusing the heck out of me in one post you say you would support a special classed bill that allows carry without a CHP. Then in your last post it says I am hooked on doing it without a permit.
That was your suggestion!!!
That was your suggestion!!!
It's not confusing at all Jay.
You keep trying to expand when you can carry.
You are working when you're on the clock. Not when you're on call or may be called or thinking about called. Actually sitting in the Vehicle or building or on scene.
That's really the only issue with me and again, I'm not going to get into it further. I'll just see what the bill looks like because as I said in the beginning. It will get rewritten if you can find a patron. Then amended X times before it's even discussed.
Believe it or not, I've just been trying to help you come up with something that has a chance of being considered.
grylnsmn
Regular Member
This is a valid point.
For my job, I spend a lot of time on call. However, I don't get paid for time spent on call. I only get paid for time actually called.
If you are on call and get called, at that point, you are no longer on call. You are then in the process of responding to a call. A law that allows you to carry (open or concealed) while you are responding to a call should be sufficient. Otherwise you are simply adding yourself to the special classes.
If you want to carry concealed on your own time, get a CHP like anyone else (until we get constitutional carry in place).
paramedic70002
Regular Member
I would BE THRILLED:banana: if my EMS ID badge gave me unrestricted carry but I just can't see where it's necessary or appropriate to be that special. Don't poison the water by trying to get that wedged into an otherwise palatable bill.
OTOH there may be some EMS providers in VA who are classed "Paid On Call" where they actually get compensated a pittance to be available in their district for unmanned ambulance calls, and are not allowed to leave the area. I don't think just BEING in your first due area should qualify.
Maybe if you rewrite it to say "in full uniform" since most off duty EMSers aren't going to stay in uniform (even though there are those that wear a tee shirt or coat) while they go about the rest of their lives. When you're off duty, just go about your business as usual. When the pager goes off and you respond, the enhanced rules kick in.
THOUGHT: Maybe add the requirement of carrying EMS ID to qualify under the statute.
THOUGHT: Make the exemption to 18.2-308 for "On duty, paid-on-call and responding EMS personnel."
I don't have a problem with LEOs being unrestricted off duty because of the nature of their job and the fact that they may have occasion to run into their "clients" when off duty. In EMS having an off duty run in with an unhappy customer just doesn't seem likely.
OTOH there may be some EMS providers in VA who are classed "Paid On Call" where they actually get compensated a pittance to be available in their district for unmanned ambulance calls, and are not allowed to leave the area. I don't think just BEING in your first due area should qualify.
Maybe if you rewrite it to say "in full uniform" since most off duty EMSers aren't going to stay in uniform (even though there are those that wear a tee shirt or coat) while they go about the rest of their lives. When you're off duty, just go about your business as usual. When the pager goes off and you respond, the enhanced rules kick in.
THOUGHT: Maybe add the requirement of carrying EMS ID to qualify under the statute.
THOUGHT: Make the exemption to 18.2-308 for "On duty, paid-on-call and responding EMS personnel."
I don't have a problem with LEOs being unrestricted off duty because of the nature of their job and the fact that they may have occasion to run into their "clients" when off duty. In EMS having an off duty run in with an unhappy customer just doesn't seem likely.
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Jay
Regular Member
paramedic70002
Regular Member
Jay
Regular Member
Yes I agree that our ID badge needs to say something along the lines of "Firearms Qualified" because regardless if you have a CCW or not there has to be some type of distinction if you are qualified to carry on an ambulance into a hospital etc.
As far as wearing uniform we do not have any uniform requirement you can if you want, but most wear jeans, boots, and a polo even when assigned to the building.
At this point I really do not care how the statue is written all I want is to be able to carry a firearm on an ambulance and anywhere I go while "on" a call without having to disarm and leave my firearm in an ambulance or my car. I do not want to be handling my gun around other people unless I need to shoot something or someone.
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Jay
Regular Member
I would include your findings I just left it off of here in an effort to save space