I apologize for misspelling your handle in my post referencing your POLITE, NON-CONFRONTATIONAL refusal to 'cover up'. And you are right, it would be a great discussion starter.
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approached in spokane mcdonalds playland-right action for the circumstances?
- Thread starter p85-GSXwheelman
- Start date
I apologize for misspelling your handle in my post referencing your POLITE, NON-CONFRONTATIONAL refusal to 'cover up'. And you are right, it would be a great discussion starter.
OP, yes, you did the right thing. In that place, at that time, it was the correct move.
What was special about that place or time?
The only reason I carry is to protect myself and my family, it's not political and I'm not a public educator.
Sure that's the primary reason we all carry but by default you are an ambassador for the cause. Are you saying that if a citizen comes up to you and solicits for information regarding Open Carry you would repel them and inform them that you are not an "public educator"? Really? And how ca it not be political? Do you not vote for pro 2A candidates? Are you not not this website? Are you not practicing the Third Rail of politics: carrying a gun? You are trying to keep your britches clean but in reality you are knee-deep in the muck.
If I can put someone at ease by pulling my shirt over my weapon, and there's no perceived threat nearby (no spidey sense going off), I don't have a problem switching to concealed.
Because we all know that the new shirts Cabela's is putting out puts Ironman's apparel to shame. Do you really think they are telling you to pull your shirt down or in a round about way telling you to leave? If hey are antis and my guess is that the overwhelming majority of them are do you really think it makes them more comftorable that you are cover up when they know the gun hasn't gone anywhere?
When I OC I always have my CPL with me, why, because it's the responsible thing to do.
Why? What are you doing while OC'ing that require a CPL "back up"?
The MCDs people left with a better impression of those of us who carry than they would have if you would have said, "fu<k off, it's my right!!"
That is a naive statement. And trying to curry favor with that group is appeasement. Secondly, I have never heard anyone on here use that kinda of language. Again refusal to comply does not equal confrontational or lewd language. that is a mischaracterization of the group and I take offense.
What was special about that place or time?
The only reason I carry is to protect myself and my family, it's not political and I'm not a public educator.
Sure that's the primary reason we all carry but by default you are an ambassador for the cause. Are you saying that if a citizen comes up to you and solicits for information regarding Open Carry you would repel them and inform them that you are not an "public educator"? Really? And how ca it not be political? Do you not vote for pro 2A candidates? Are you not not this website? Are you not practicing the Third Rail of politics: carrying a gun? You are trying to keep your britches clean but in reality you are knee-deep in the muck.
If I can put someone at ease by pulling my shirt over my weapon, and there's no perceived threat nearby (no spidey sense going off), I don't have a problem switching to concealed.
Because we all know that the new shirts Cabela's is putting out puts Ironman's apparel to shame. Do you really think they are telling you to pull your shirt down or in a round about way telling you to leave? If hey are antis and my guess is that the overwhelming majority of them are do you really think it makes them more comftorable that you are cover up when they know the gun hasn't gone anywhere?
When I OC I always have my CPL with me, why, because it's the responsible thing to do.
Why? What are you doing while OC'ing that require a CPL "back up"?
The MCDs people left with a better impression of those of us who carry than they would have if you would have said, "fu<k off, it's my right!!"
That is a naive statement. And trying to curry favor with that group is appeasement. Secondly, I have never heard anyone on here use that kinda of language. Again refusal to comply does not equal confrontational or lewd language. that is a mischaracterization of the group and I take offense.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
I disagree. Both are a right. "...shall not be infringed."
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Lovenox you put it very eloquent earlier, thank you.
However, to the OP and to others. You can be polite and courteous, kind and professional and not oblige the request.
Personally, I would of NOT covered up.
Damn it, we need to stand our ground. Be polite, courteous, kind and professional, but DO NOT concede that anything you are doing is wrong.
However, to the OP and to others. You can be polite and courteous, kind and professional and not oblige the request.
Personally, I would of NOT covered up.
Damn it, we need to stand our ground. Be polite, courteous, kind and professional, but DO NOT concede that anything you are doing is wrong.
I respectfully agree/disagree. I would love a world where the Second Amendment is all the CPL you would ever need, but try pulling that one on a cop when asked to produce a CPL.
hermannr
Regular Member
I think I would have asked the gentleman a little question....If I was wearing a police officers uniform, would you ask me to cover it up?" When he responded no, which we all know he would, I would have then asked why he thinks a uniform makes a pistol less deadly when in fact, police offices have % wise, many more firearm accidents than pistols that are openly carried by civilians?
I openly carry "for the children". For their protection and for their education. I do not hide my carry, people need to learn that an openly carried firearm is not a danger to their safety...it is for their safety.
Oh, may I add to the OP. While the choice you made would not have been my choice (see above), it was your choice, and that is ok. We all have our own way at looking at the world around us.
I openly carry "for the children". For their protection and for their education. I do not hide my carry, people need to learn that an openly carried firearm is not a danger to their safety...it is for their safety.
Oh, may I add to the OP. While the choice you made would not have been my choice (see above), it was your choice, and that is ok. We all have our own way at looking at the world around us.
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SpyderTattoo
Regular Member
Loveknox, you are my new favorite person on these boards. You are saying things that are true and need to be said (again). These subjects have been covered in the past, but it's been a while I think. Many of us here have been OC'ing a long time, and been on these boards for quite some time, and we've seen all these arguments before. Saying that, I think you are saying it in a way that hasn't been said before.
Thank you. I'd love to meet you. You should come to the WAC gunshow next weekend in Puyallup. I'm sure the OCDO Washington table will be there, but I work for WAC so I'm at every show. I will buy your ticket to get in.
Nick, I agree, "... stand our ground..." How do you guys think OC gets normalized? You have to do it. People must see you doing it. You must stand your ground with it and not do what is the easiest thing. Do the hard thing and don't conceal. Be polite, but be assured that you're in the right. It will never become a normal thing if we don't do this. I know, I've done it. I've had to stand my ground with citizens and police. And yes, I've had police ask me for my CPL and ID while OC'ing. And NO, I didn't give in. I stood my ground and said, "Sorry officer, I don't have my CPL on me, and I don't need it anyway since I'm not concealing.". You know what? They backed down. They knew I was in the right. "Have a nice day officer."
Thank you. I'd love to meet you. You should come to the WAC gunshow next weekend in Puyallup. I'm sure the OCDO Washington table will be there, but I work for WAC so I'm at every show. I will buy your ticket to get in.
Nick, I agree, "... stand our ground..." How do you guys think OC gets normalized? You have to do it. People must see you doing it. You must stand your ground with it and not do what is the easiest thing. Do the hard thing and don't conceal. Be polite, but be assured that you're in the right. It will never become a normal thing if we don't do this. I know, I've done it. I've had to stand my ground with citizens and police. And yes, I've had police ask me for my CPL and ID while OC'ing. And NO, I didn't give in. I stood my ground and said, "Sorry officer, I don't have my CPL on me, and I don't need it anyway since I'm not concealing.". You know what? They backed down. They knew I was in the right. "Have a nice day officer."
amzbrady
Regular Member
Bipolarity, I love it. I think you hit the nail on the head.
We go to Wal-Mart, Starbucks, Winco, Costco and have multitudes of discussions on how we should boycott, notify corporate offices, expect the public to just except the fact that we are law abiding citizens and they should not fear us even though they dont know who we are. But mention the fact the gun show tying firearms to render them inoperable with an easily cut tie doesnt make sense, and the all the sudden people go off their meds and will tell you it's because they have no idea who anyone is .
Why doesn't the gun shows check CPL's, and allow those that have had background checks walk about with a properly holstered firearm in plain view?
1) Do you go to Gun shows Open Carry? Not without rendering your firearm useless.
2) Agreed
3) See #1
4) Agreed - Baskin Robins with a carload of Kids is a great way to initiate a conversation, if anyone sticks around. I love family outings and esp Ice cream.
5) Me Too.
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Jack House
Regular Member
McDonalds isn't the place for a confrontation. You don't lose anything by agreeing to a polite and seemingly reasonable request. Rather you stand to gain something, especially in a situation like this. Where a refusal in any but the most polite and well thought out fashion will just about guarantee you lose something.
Personally, I'd have covered up and engaged the man in conversation in an attempt to further the positive image. Then uncover once I got to the car.
Posted using my HTCEvo via Tapatalk
Personally, I'd have covered up and engaged the man in conversation in an attempt to further the positive image. Then uncover once I got to the car.
Posted using my HTCEvo via Tapatalk
I think it was 'wrong' to give in to this request without trying to educate and it give the person, and onlookers the feeling that THEY have the right to abridge yours. You have to make a judgement based on the circumstances, but it appears he took the path of least resistance.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I personally agree with you. But I wasn't the OP and I wasn't there. I am a firm believer of when you are right stand your ground as so well put by others. But I am reluctant to make a personal judgement of the OP, he did what he thought was best maybe next time he won't.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Correct.
However, you don't have to have a 'confrontation' to politely say thank you for your concern and then go about your business. Stand your ground, you are doing nothing wrong.
You might as well not OC if you are going to have this attitude.
TechnoWeenie
Regular Member
who cares?
You did what you thought was right in the circumstances. You have only you to answer to.
You did what you thought was right in the circumstances. You have only you to answer to.
McDonalds isn't the place for a confrontation.
This of course leads to a required follow up question: What place is the ideal real estate for a confrontation??? If McDonald's is verboten then what is the place to be confrontational ? The answer of course is nowhere. You are a person armed in the open with a firearm therefore politeness, professionalism, and a subdued demeanor must be part of your DNA. Again, confrontation being the operative word. One can logically politely refuse an illogical request. And in that practice you will kill the haunting specters of confrontation.
You don't lose anything by agreeing to a polite and seemingly reasonable request. Rather you stand to gain something, especially in a situation like this. Where a refusal in any but the most polite and well thought out fashion will just about guarantee you lose something.
Again, capitulating to forces that are A) ignorant of the law or B) know the law but just don't care will not draft any members onto our team in the future. They have signed a life long contract with Team Anti and will go to great lengths to get you to quit yours; from the legislative process to individual encounters. Unless you educate the A)
Personally, I'd have covered up and engaged the man in conversation in an attempt to further the positive image. Then uncover once I got to the car.
That might be the happy medium, but the danger is that A) you immediately fulfilled the request B) they very well might still ignore your educating them on the law since they are B).
For the record: I would like to think that I would stand firm in my statements and convert them to practice if ever confronted with the situation. To be fair to the OP I am currently an armchair quarterback viewing events from afar. If in the future I am presented with the scenario I will report back honestly as to the outcome.
This of course leads to a required follow up question: What place is the ideal real estate for a confrontation??? If McDonald's is verboten then what is the place to be confrontational ? The answer of course is nowhere. You are a person armed in the open with a firearm therefore politeness, professionalism, and a subdued demeanor must be part of your DNA. Again, confrontation being the operative word. One can logically politely refuse an illogical request. And in that practice you will kill the haunting specters of confrontation.
You don't lose anything by agreeing to a polite and seemingly reasonable request. Rather you stand to gain something, especially in a situation like this. Where a refusal in any but the most polite and well thought out fashion will just about guarantee you lose something.
Again, capitulating to forces that are A) ignorant of the law or B) know the law but just don't care will not draft any members onto our team in the future. They have signed a life long contract with Team Anti and will go to great lengths to get you to quit yours; from the legislative process to individual encounters. Unless you educate the A)
Personally, I'd have covered up and engaged the man in conversation in an attempt to further the positive image. Then uncover once I got to the car.
That might be the happy medium, but the danger is that A) you immediately fulfilled the request B) they very well might still ignore your educating them on the law since they are B).
For the record: I would like to think that I would stand firm in my statements and convert them to practice if ever confronted with the situation. To be fair to the OP I am currently an armchair quarterback viewing events from afar. If in the future I am presented with the scenario I will report back honestly as to the outcome.
kparker
Regular Member
Hasn't anyone mentioned having the WA Open Carry brochure on hand to give out at times like this? Or did I just miss that?
By all means, politely cover or politely decline, but also have something definitive you can give the folks for their further education.
By all means, politely cover or politely decline, but also have something definitive you can give the folks for their further education.
No disrespect intended, but the only place I see this going is more unnecessary handing of the firearm. Most folks drive, and having to get into the vehicle and handle the firearm every time in public to unload...well let’s just say unnecessary, IMO. And reason for arrest in Bellingham, according to their TB. And, telling the officer you have no CPL I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if that cop sits a spell to see which vehicle you and your kid pile into. I hope he/she has better things to do though!
My thought is as others posted, being the OP made the right choice for them. Me, with a young child in tow I would have done the same, not wanting my kid standing around watching dad cuffed and stuffed because some anti-gun ***** lied about the circumstance, and child now being picked up by CPS.
Sometimes common sense over rules common right, flesh and blood is far more important than OC.
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Uber_Olafsun
Regular Member
Just keep the cpl in the car.
DocWalker
Regular Member
I won't say what the OP did was wrong or right but you comment about "complying" because you don't want your child to see you cuffed and stuffed is just wrong.
1. IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG OR ILLEGAL YOU WON'T BE CUFFED AND STUFFED.......
2. They make video and recorders for a reason, use them.
3. If for some reason you are cuffed and stuffed while doing nothing illegal you will be VERY VERY RICH AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE.
IMHO by covering up infront of your child you just showed him who's BIATTCH you are.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Agreed. Just keep it like your registration and insurance in the vehicle. It is the only place it is needed.