approached in spokane mcdonalds playland-right action for the circumstances?

[JoeSparky]

Did you not read all of Gogodawg's posts? This is what he's been saying the entire thread.

Just put my own version--- much shorter out here....

And thanks for your support!

Carry on! ---Where ever it is legal and in a manner legal for you!

 

[jbone]

Enough of the insults directed towards myself and others, you make yourself look silly.

Oh please! You sir of one of the biggest offenders. I know, I've been on the receiving end of your HIGH AND MIGHTY personal attacks before, remember? Don't go playing all innocent now, we both know that's a load of dung.


Anyway, the guy did just fine, he did what he felt was right and comfortable for the moment. So it dosn't measure up to your standards, who cares! The End!

 

[BigDave]

Not every incident, Not every platform and Not every circumstance needs to be hard lined, this was about the kids playing and enjoying themselves not about the requester nor the OP, this thread has came to be more about me me me narcissistic attitudes.
If ones was to go about normalizing open carry, how many would have changed their minds that day if he refused and an issue blew things out of proportion. Sometimes letting something go, more is gained then lost.

There are more appropriate places and platforms to promote lawful carry open and concealed.

 

[jbone]

Not every incident, Not every platform and Not every circumstance needs to be hard lined, this was about the kids playing and enjoying themselves not about the requester nor the OP, this thread has came to be more about me me me narcissistic attitudes.
If ones was to go about normalizing open carry, how many would have changed their minds that day if he refused and an issue blew things out of proportion. Sometimes letting something go, more is gained then lost.

There are more appropriate places and platforms to promote lawful carry open and concealed.

Amen!

 

[Lovenox]

Ah...let's think about the children people! Isn't that what the anti's and Liberals say? My gun must be broken cause every time I OC and walk by the children the dammed thing doesn't go off. But I digress:

Not every incident, Not every platform and Not every circumstance needs to be hard lined,

Dave, what does it mean to be "hard lined" when it comes to matter of the Constitution. I mean either you are or you aren't, right?


If ones was to go about normalizing open carry, how many would have changed their minds that day if he refused and an issue blew things out of proportion. Sometimes letting something go, more is gained then lost.


Well, if one is to normalize nudity one must be nude to do so, correct? One cannot be clothed and bring awareness to nudity with any integrity. Again, you amongst others on the board are illogically tethering disagreement with some or remote belligerent action. It never fails to amaze me how we continue to make the case for the antis and will confront (not to be confused with "confrontational") big box retailers, court houses and even police, citing RCW, recording and posting the event, asking for corporate policies, organizing Saturday Meet Ups, coordinating letter writing campaigns but when ONE person comes up to us we find excuses to cover up because of children? The almost schizophrenic postures we take spins my head.

There are more appropriate places and platforms to promote lawful carry open and concealed.


Well if children being the yard stick to use as a measure of "appropriate place and platform" then you will quickly find yourself OC'ing to within only the confines of your living room. Stop giving the anti's political and civic ammo!

Again, as we can see the OP clearly made a proper parenting choice that day, for him, not for you or anyone else. why is that so hard to understand. He too had a "FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT", and exercised it, I think some of you should go find an ANTI to bash instead of bashing a carrier of firearms.

No. Truth be told he chose to give up a RIGHT and substitute it with a PRIVILEGE. That is a wide chasm of a difference. Please know your rights and your privileges lest you get the two confused.

The bottom line is this: Does the OP have the choice to not stand his ground ? Yes. That's not the argument. No one is saying what he did was illegal. As a matter of fact NvyLtCmdr called him out when he said something to the effect of it being more tactically sound to carry concealed because of "the element of surprise" and asked him if it is true why does he open carry. At the end of the day it is HIS CHOICE, but that doesn't mean we cannot respectfully disagree, question, examine or even brow beat him for it. As I have said before: I am glad he is a proponent of the Second Amendment and glad he is on the broad team. Are we arguing nuance ? Sure, but the devil and the Constitution both reside in the details.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Ah...let's think about the children people! Isn't that what the anti's and Liberals say? My gun must be broken cause every time I OC and walk by the children the dammed thing doesn't go off. But I digress:

Not every incident, Not every platform and Not every circumstance needs to be hard lined,

Dave, what does it mean to be "hard lined" when it comes to matter of the Constitution. I mean either you are or you aren't, right?


If ones was to go about normalizing open carry, how many would have changed their minds that day if he refused and an issue blew things out of proportion. Sometimes letting something go, more is gained then lost.


Well, if one is to normalize nudity one must be nude to do so, correct? One cannot be clothed and bring awareness to nudity with any integrity. Again, you amongst others on the board are illogically tethering disagreement with some or remote belligerent action. It never fails to amaze me how we continue to make the case for the antis and will confront (not to be confused with "confrontational") big box retailers, court houses and even police, citing RCW, recording and posting the event, asking for corporate policies, organizing Saturday Meet Ups, coordinating letter writing campaigns but when ONE person comes up to us we find excuses to cover up because of children? The almost schizophrenic postures we take spins my head.

There are more appropriate places and platforms to promote lawful carry open and concealed.


Well if children being the yard stick to use as a measure of "appropriate place and platform" then you will quickly find yourself OC'ing to within only the confines of your living room. Stop giving the anti's political and civic ammo!

Again, as we can see the OP clearly made a proper parenting choice that day, for him, not for you or anyone else. why is that so hard to understand. He too had a "FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT", and exercised it, I think some of you should go find an ANTI to bash instead of bashing a carrier of firearms.

No. Truth be told he chose to give up a RIGHT and substitute it with a PRIVILEGE. That is a wide chasm of a difference. Please know your rights and your privileges lest you get the two confused.

The bottom line is this: Does the OP have the choice to not stand his ground ? Yes. That's not the argument. No one is saying what he did was illegal. As a matter of fact NvyLtCmdr called him out when he said something to the effect of it being more tactically sound to carry concealed because of "the element of surprise" and asked him if it is true why does he open carry. At the end of the day it is HIS CHOICE, but that doesn't mean we cannot respectfully disagree, question, examine or even brow beat him for it. As I have said before: I am glad he is a proponent of the Second Amendment and glad he is on the broad team. Are we arguing nuance ? Sure, but the devil and the Constitution both reside in the details.

Well said Sir +1

 

[davidmcbeth]

I would have told the old man to have the ladies come over if they have an issue

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Ah...let's think about the children people! Isn't that what the anti's and Liberals say? My gun must be broken cause every time I OC and walk by the children the dammed thing doesn't go off. But I digress:

Not every incident, Not every platform and Not every circumstance needs to be hard lined,

Dave, what does it mean to be "hard lined" when it comes to matter of the Constitution. I mean either you are or you aren't, right?


If ones was to go about normalizing open carry, how many would have changed their minds that day if he refused and an issue blew things out of proportion. Sometimes letting something go, more is gained then lost.


Well, if one is to normalize nudity one must be nude to do so, correct? One cannot be clothed and bring awareness to nudity with any integrity. Again, you amongst others on the board are illogically tethering disagreement with some or remote belligerent action. It never fails to amaze me how we continue to make the case for the antis and will confront (not to be confused with "confrontational") big box retailers, court houses and even police, citing RCW, recording and posting the event, asking for corporate policies, organizing Saturday Meet Ups, coordinating letter writing campaigns but when ONE person comes up to us we find excuses to cover up because of children? The almost schizophrenic postures we take spins my head.

There are more appropriate places and platforms to promote lawful carry open and concealed.


Well if children being the yard stick to use as a measure of "appropriate place and platform" then you will quickly find yourself OC'ing to within only the confines of your living room. Stop giving the anti's political and civic ammo!

Again, as we can see the OP clearly made a proper parenting choice that day, for him, not for you or anyone else. why is that so hard to understand. He too had a "FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT", and exercised it, I think some of you should go find an ANTI to bash instead of bashing a carrier of firearms.

No. Truth be told he chose to give up a RIGHT and substitute it with a PRIVILEGE. That is a wide chasm of a difference. Please know your rights and your privileges lest you get the two confused.

The bottom line is this: Does the OP have the choice to not stand his ground ? Yes. That's not the argument. No one is saying what he did was illegal. As a matter of fact NvyLtCmdr called him out when he said something to the effect of it being more tactically sound to carry concealed because of "the element of surprise" and asked him if it is true why does he open carry. At the end of the day it is HIS CHOICE, but that doesn't mean we cannot respectfully disagree, question, examine or even brow beat him for it. As I have said before: I am glad he is a proponent of the Second Amendment and glad he is on the broad team. Are we arguing nuance ? Sure, but the devil and the Constitution both reside in the details.

+1

 

[BigDave]

And the narcissist keep popping their heads, unable to put another before themselves as in a children's playground, it was not to disarm anyone for crying out loud.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Should I also put a long sleeve shirt on to cover my tattoos because someone finds eagles and M1As offensive.

Should I put a shirt over my Harley tee shirt because someone is afraid of folks that ride Harleys.

Should I leave because I am 6-6 250 lbs and my size my size is intimidating someone.

Should I leave because I am reading a gun magazine.

Should someone leave because they are black, gay or an orthodox Jew.

Should Rosa have quietly gone to the rear of the bus.

Now I don't particularly care that the OP opted to cover up that is his decision & business not mine. The OP did what he felt was best for him at the time and I am not going to second guess him. I am happy that he posted his experiance here and hope to hear about more of his activities in the future.

I most likely would have politely refused the request and continued on doing what I was doing.

Living in a free country involves tolerance of others, there are no guaranties of feeling safe in a free society.

I would say the narcissist was the guy demanding someone do his bidding when he asked the OP to cover up. The OP was minding his own business at the time.

 

[G30Mike]

Should I also put a long sleeve shirt on to cover my tattoos because someone finds eagles and M1As offensive.

Should I put a shirt over my Harley tee shirt because someone is afraid of folks that ride Harleys.

Should I leave because I am 6-6 250 lbs and my size my size is intimidating someone.

Should I leave because I am reading a gun magazine.

Should someone leave because they are black, gay or an orthodox Jew.

Should Rosa have quietly gone to the rear of the bus.

Now I don't particularly care that the OP opted to cover up that is his decision & business not mine. The OP did what he felt was best for him at the time and I am not going to second guess him. I am happy that he posted his experiance here and hope to hear about more of his activities in the future.

I most likely would have politely refused the request and continued on doing what I was doing.

Living in a free country involves tolerance of others, there are no guaranties of feeling safe in a free society.

I would say the narcissist was the guy demanding someone do his bidding when he asked the OP to cover up. The OP was minding his own business at the time.

I agree 100%.
Good post.

 

[JoeSparky]

And to follow ORPHAN's latest post on this thread...

The fact that the OP did elect to cover the firearm MADE no difference to the other folks in playland (not the old man that approached him) as they all left in a few minutes anyway!

The ONLY person inconvenienced was the OP when he elected to cover for all the reasons that many choose to OC vs CC.

 

[Lovenox]

And the narcissist keep popping their heads, unable to put another before themselves as in a children's playground, it was not to disarm anyone for crying out loud.

View attachment 7983

Dave, I take exception to your narcissistic comment. I carry because in addition to my own safety I am thinking of others as well. ...I am thinking about children in the playground, children at Best Buy, children at the lake, children at the local trail head, children at the river, children at the local municipal park,etc But when you give in because of the children, where does it end???? There are people monitoring this site and you just gave them an out to make our lives even more difficult. You gave them the Achilles's Heel gift wrapped..."Hey, guys, I was on that stupid OC website and guess what? As long as you tell them it's about the children they will cover up!!" Then next thing you know you will be capitulating for little old ladies, amputees, deaf harp players, and ex Scramble champions. Hyperbole , of course but you get my drift. Once you let the camel's nose in the tent...
FOR THE RECORD: I am glad the OP is on the side of the 2A and carries.

 

[BigDave]

Dave, I take exception to your narcissistic comment. I carry because in addition to my own safety I am thinking of others as well. ...I am thinking about children in the playground, children at Best Buy, children at the lake, children at the local trail head, children at the river, children at the local municipal park,etc But when you give in because of the children, where does it end???? There are people monitoring this site and you just gave them an out to make our lives even more difficult. You gave them the Achilles's Heel gift wrapped..."Hey, guys, I was on that stupid OC website and guess what? As long as you tell them it's about the children they will cover up!!" Then next thing you know you will be capitulating for little old ladies, amputees, deaf harp players, and ex Scramble champions. Hyperbole , of course but you get my drift. Once you let the camel's nose in the tent...
FOR THE RECORD: I am glad the OP is on the side of the 2A and carries.

And off to the extreme we go lovenox, I have never implied or suggested not to carry in this situation or any other legal place to be.
As to this situation there is no issue of just pulling over a garment and let the kids play instead of having a scene over an issue that would likely place a negative few on those who carry, as I said before pick your battles in a place that will do more good then possibly harm but no you and well as some others cannot not see beyond their own narcissistic ways to think of someone else beside yourself as you can clearly see in your post ie especially the one quoted here.

Am I advocating being unarmed, NO! By all means I support carry 24/7

Note on the issue of open or concealed carry, when I moved back to Yakima there were several ordinances that prohibited firearm possession and I fought and through persistence had those repealed so I am not opposed to supporting our 2nd Amendment Rights to WA State Const. Article 1 Sec 24

 

[Citizen]

I haven't read the whole thread, so ignore anything that's already been said:

Has anybody pointed out the McDonalds is private property and they can ask or demand pretty much anything they want?

About all an OCer can really do is comply, or remonstrate in a friendly way.

It doesn't seem like polite remonstration was attempted by the OPer. Oh, well. Not an issue at all. Maybe even the first time he's ever been asked and it caught him off guard.

But, I would go for friendly remonstrance.

"Oh, sure, I can cover it up if you want. But, my experience is they'll get used to it. Would it be all that big a problem if I just enjoyed my time with my daughter the way I am?"

Just remonstrate until either you run out of ideas or he stands firm on his request.

Or, if it annoys you, and you're not getting anywhere with discussion, you can always pull the no-guns/no-money tactic if it comes down to it:''I understand and will comply with your wishes. One last question. Who would you rather have in your restaurant, a person who gets nervous at the sight of a gun, or a someone who takes his responsibility to protect his family seriously? Who would you rather have if a robber walked in right now?" Something like that. Let him decide whose money he would rather have: a whiner who will be completely useless in a very bad situation, or a person with the tools to do something about it.

 

[Lovenox]

And off to the extreme we go lovenox, I have never implied or suggested not to carry in this situation or any other legal place to be.

Nobody accused you of that. It is what type of carry you do advocate when given slight pressure from uninformed citizens and antis that has got us concerned.


As to this situation there is no issue of just pulling over a garment and let the kids play instead of having a scene over an issue that would likely place a negative few on those who carry, as I said before pick your battles in a place that will do more good then possibly harm but no you and well as some others cannot not see beyond their own narcissistic ways to think of someone else beside yourself as you can clearly see in your post ie especially the one quoted here.

Several points of contention. One, the simple covering of said weapon proved to be of no solace for those that initially made the petition for the OP to cover as they left mere minutes later. The OPs own words: P.S. playland almost completely cleared out in about 3-5 minutes Even in the act of capitulation it proved to be a no winner for the OP and perhaps even emboldened the antis. In a slight of hand manner they were telling OP in no uncertain terms: "Don't carry a gun"! Second, again, you are making the assumption that 1) there will be a "scene" 2) as a group we don't posses the maturity or wherewithal to act in a professional, polite positive manner. This board is peppered with board members respectfully refusing illogical requests whereby the outcome was positive. If you don't trust yourself to carry out a civil discussion then by all means cover up and contain your belligerent tendencies. Thirdly, where will be a good place to "pick your battle"? I have asked this several times and you have yet to answer it, Dave. Where , Dave? Starbucks? And lastly, if all you got in rebuttal is "narcissistic" then we can't help you. I asked some legitimate questions to what all you can offer in rebuke is "narcissistic"? Really? again, if the children is your kryptonite you will discover that you will almost exclusively be carrying CC.

Am I advocating being unarmed, NO! By all means I support carry 24/7


Who even leveled those charges?

Note on the issue of open or concealed carry, when I moved back to Yakima there were several ordinances that prohibited firearm possession and I fought and through persistence had those repealed so I am not opposed to supporting our 2nd Amendment Rights to WA State Const. Article 1 Sec 24

This is exactly the schizophrenia I spoke of earlier. You just made my case. Swallow a camel gag on a gnat.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

I haven't read the whole thread, so ignore anything that's already been said:

Has anybody pointed out the McDonalds is private property and they can ask or demand pretty much anything they want?

About all an OCer can really do is comply, or remonstrate in a friendly way.

It doesn't seem like polite remonstration was attempted by the OPer. Oh, well. Not an issue at all. Maybe even the first time he's ever been asked and it caught him off guard.

But, I would go for friendly remonstrance.

"Oh, sure, I can cover it up if you want. But, my experience is they'll get used to it. Would it be all that big a problem if I just enjoyed my time with my daughter the way I am?"

Just remonstrate until either you run out of ideas or he stands firm on his request.

Or, if it annoys you, and you're not getting anywhere with discussion, you can always pull the no-guns/no-money tactic if it comes down to it:''I understand and will comply with your wishes. One last question. Who would you rather have in your restaurant, a person who gets nervous at the sight of a gun, or a someone who takes his responsibility to protect his family seriously? Who would you rather have if a robber walked in right now?" Something like that. Let him decide whose money he would rather have: a whiner who will be completely useless in a very bad situation, or a person with the tools to do something about it.

Citizen McDonald's management had nothing to do with the encounter it was between the OP and another citizen that happened to be eating at McDonald's at the same time as the OP. I have OCed in several McDonald's in the Spokane area with out incident or comment and I would be surprised if management had any issues with OC.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Narcissism would be thinking you know what would be the best in what other's decide to do.

Notice Lovenox doesn't condemn the OP Lovenox and others have stated simply we wouldn't let the fake "for the children" argument color what we feel is right for ourselves.

 

[gogodawgs]

Narcissism would be thinking you know what would be the best in what other's decide to do.

Notice Lovenox doesn't condemn the OP Lovenox and others have stated simply we wouldn't let the fake "for the children" argument color what we feel is right for ourselves.

It's ok SVG, we have been called dumber than a monkey and narcissistic in this thread by exploring multiple outcomes...

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Narcissism would be thinking you know what would be the best in what other's decide to do.

Notice Lovenox doesn't condemn the OP Lovenox and others have stated simply we wouldn't let the fake "for the children" argument color what we feel is right for ourselves.

Exactly