Bellum_Intus
Regular Member
And how would you know if they were innocent?
Should I even answer this? ... no.. just no..
--Rob
And how would you know if they were innocent?
Not to butt in Rob, but for future considerations, I have a relatively decent prosumer set-up for videos. I have 2 HD video cameras and a distance mic that picks up from about 50 feet. I also have a full version of Sony Vegas Platinum that I use to do a ton of editing. It's a bit of a hobby of mine. I record and edit my kids theater productions. I'm not a professional videographer, but I'm cheap. LOL. Anyone wants help I'm available. Just offering my services.
Just need to pick up a dead cat for the mic to stop wind noise.
I have a shoting place/range in the front yard we have a photographer in Parker and an activist, pardon the term, in Aurora looks like it can get done, come on up Rob
I was US Army for 18 yrs, if I were ordered to engage innocent civilians.. I'd consider that an unlawful order, however, if citizens were shooting at me.. that's another story..
--Rob
Howdy Folks!
I'd like to take a moment to update my progress with talking with city folks today about this travesty against the rights of citizens in this instance.
In addition, I'd like to also perhaps redirect the discussion at hand.
The problem isn't about our military. The problem is with law enforcement agencies all over America becoming increasingly militarized and more frequently prone to shooting first and asking questions later. There is too much testosterone poisoning among our LEO's, and it affects their ability to recall things... like they are servants of the people, not their rulers.
This case, according to new information I have at hand, also involved FBI agents. So the violation of Constitutional rights wasn't just a local affair, but one that involved Feds in the bargain. While I have been harranging local officals today, I anticipate contacting my federal representatives to the U.S. House and Senate tomorrow to demand an investigation. If federal agents participated in stripping citizens of Aurora of their rights under both the U.S. Constitution and the Colorado Constitution, they should be held to account as well. It should be assigned to the department of Justice for investigation, and appropriate charges filed against those who threatened citizens at gunpoint.
While talking with one official, she said "Your philosophical view may differ from what the officers observed on the scene." To which I replied, "The Constitution of the United States and of Colorado are not philosophical documents. They are the foundation of our laws, placing limits on the authority of government, and recognizing that power resides in the people! It ain't about philosophical views, it is about the rule of law!" And that's part of the problem within law enforcement. They regard a Constitutional perspective as a philosophical point of view rather than the basis of all laws in the United States of America.
I also spoke with my ward council person who told me she intended to raise this issue at tonight's meeting. I offered to go as a speaker, as I have a certain ability to articulate my concerns as a citizen. She informed that they've gotten quite a number of calls, some from outside Colorado. Folks around the country are watcing what unfolds here in Aurora. But we must keep the pressure going. They must understand that law enforcement is accountable to the people. They are servants of the citizenry, not their masters. They are here to protect and serve, not rule, dominate or threaten the innocent.
My own personal sense of outrage has grown over the last few hours, and I expect to call for an investigation from the Governor's office, and intend to contact my federal representatives and congress folks to demand action to set things straight. And if federal officers were involved in stripping away the Constitutional rights of citizens, they need to be fired without delay!
Along the way, in my conversation with one of those city officials, I stated my position: "The Constitution is the rule of law. It is not arbitrary, nor is it optional. It is the law that officers have sworn to preserve and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It cannot be simply shelved for expediency, dispensed with when inconvenient, nor set aside when cumbersome. The law is the law, and when officers break the law, there is only lawlessness."
So far as I am concerned, the officers involved in this situation were in outright and overt disregard of their sworn oath.
They ought not remain in service to the city when it has become evident their oath was nothing beyond words they repeated at a ceremony at city hall.
I have demanded that my city council person take an affirmative stand to uphold the rights of Americans living in Aurora, and set about cleaning house at Aurora P.D.
My statement was that any officer who pointed a weapon at a citizen is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon, and felony menacing. I reminded one offical that I recall an Aurora officer who was killed while taking SWAT training when another officer experienced a negligent discharge and put a bullet through his fellow officer's skull. So to say there was justification for pointing loaded weapons at innocent civilians was immoral, inconscionable, deadly and just plain unprofessional.
Anyhow, we need to keep those calls coming to Aurora city officials demanding, as I have, that officers guilty of pointing weapons at innocent citizens be tried for criminal acts. In addition, those who participated should each be reprimanded for conduct unbecoming an officer of the law. Finally, the chief of police needs to be immediately replaced. Sacked! Fired!!! Anyone who claims "The ends justify the means" is echoing the mentality of Nazi Germany, not the Constitution of the United States of America.
And if he doesn't understand that simple concept, he should not be holding the job tomorrow! Either he is ignorant of the Constitution, in which case he is unfit to lead a police department, or he is endorsing the outright stripping of citizens rights, in which case, he is unfit for command.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
What if you were TOLD that they fired on US soldiers but you didnt actually see it?
Would you still fire on American citizens?
You probably wouldn't, but think about how many who would do so. Especially if these Americans who are to have allegedly fired on your men are called "terrorists".
.
Lets just say I'd have had a hard time in the Waco raid.. I'd have sat that one out..
--Rob
I have a shoting place/range in the front yard we have a photographer in Parker and an activist, pardon the term, in Aurora looks like it can get done, come on up Rob
lol .. awesome!.. =) I may do that.. I don't head north of CR much at all.. scares me up there lol..
--Rob
=p , it's all good.. I suppose as long as the word gets out..
The range offer is still open =)
--Rob
This Friday is my day off. Spending all day might be tough, but I can come out for a session. And I don't have a wind muff yet, so wind noise is an issue. But I can check the cost of a muff too. Hey, anytime you want to any kind of video I'm down. Would love to see some Colorado based OCDO vids on YouTube. Or even some training review type stuff. Might be fun.
I made a mini 14 accuracy video.. .. I am NOT a video dude.. so yeah.. I may have to pay you for some quality stuff..
My YT is 'irmbnet' if you want to see how horrid mine are..
Back to Aurora.. where are we gonna video this MT!!!!
--Rob
Howdy Again Rob!
Where isn't as big an issue as when! I have been off work Saturday, Sunday and Monday. My last free day is Tuesday (as in today already).
Then I am back to the day job until Saturday, but am slated for a trip to Alamosa. My next free days are Monday and Tuesday after that.
I am taking Monday the 18th off, I begged and pleaded my daughter to spend an extra day with me this weekend.. lol..
I work days and have pistol classes 2 days next week in the evening. (wow.. OC'ers really do have firearms training eh?.. seems its all I do lately)
The 23rd is out due to my morning range detail and meet n greet in the afternoon. Sunday the 24th is good I think..
If we can get the uber video guy down that'd be cool too.. I have an HD JVC camera, but it sounds like he's got better equipment..
--Rob
The other one is a SLR type digital that also does full HD video. So I wouldn't call it movie studio quality. More like public access cable level.. LOL.
Don't be so quick to come to that conclusion! The opening sequence to "Saturday Night Live" and a lot of the later episodes of "House" were shot with a Canon 5D Mk II SLR.
O2
Howdy Folks!
We like to say that governments rule by consent of the governed. Really?
Who among us gave consent for red light traffic cameras at intersections all over Aurora?
Who gave consent to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens after Katrina?
Who gave consent to the massacre at Ludlow? Or the next massacre at Columbine Mine?
Government/military/industrial attacks against civilians have been all too common in America over the years.
Let's keep things a little closer to home, shall we?
What about the Kent State killings by National Guardsmen who opened fire on unarmed students?
What about the cops dousing peaceful protesters in California with pepper spray?
What about the daily erosion of our rights and liberties seen in jurisdiction after jurisdiction across our nation?
How about the killing of a marine corps veteran in Tucson Arizona last year, shot by a SWAT team that put 60 bullets into his body?
Or the police shootings in California where so many bullets got fired, they could have wiped out a small band of insurgents?
The list goes on and on, and some of it has been put on public display for all to see and understand who has the better firepower.
Is it any surprise that, since the inception of television, the number of cop shows has dwarfed other types of programming?
And the cops are always the good guys, even when they violate rules of engagement or Constitutional safeguards.
The governments, at every level from Federal down to county and city, have convinced us to give up rights one after another.
For our own good, of course, and the greater good of society at large.
The greatest threat that Saturday in Aurora wasn't from the bad guy. He just robbed a bank.
The greatest threat to civilians was having cops pull innocent citizens from their cars with guns pointed at them.
Guns loaded, pointed at them, and the threat to their lives abundantly clear.
Don't think our law enforcement is a threat to us? Why are police forces all over America becoming increasingly militarized?
Because of terrorists? In Aurora, the only people terrorized were citizens confronted with cops pointing guns at them.
They were terrified. Their children were terrified. Folks seeing this outrage on television were terrified.
Who are our terrorists?
Unless we Americans stand up for our rights, we will lose them sure as shooting.
Unless we hold our elected officials accountable, they will end up being no-accounts.
Unless we demand a level of dedication to their oaths, they will break them, as they did in Aurora on Saturday.
Unless we all, every single American across this nation who love our Constitution and the inalienable rights they proclaim, there will be efforts made to alienate us from those rights.
I made calls this morning, and you can check the time stamp on my update in a post above.
My city council woman has not called back.
The mayors office hasn't called either.
They need to hear the outrage, from every corner of our land.
And unless they do, they'll have scored another victory in the march toward tyrrany.
When such abuse of power is evident, we must rise to confront it together.
Whether it is a rogue cop in Canton Ohio, or a whole team of rogue cops in Aurora Colorado.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
Not sure if this has been seen on the forums before, but I ran across this tonight and after reading the post though if this was law in Colorado what could have happened in Aurora could have gotten really ugly very fast.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-05/nra-backed-law-spells-out-when-indianans-may-open-fire-on-police.html
You are right on. There is another thread on this, btw, in the social lounge where I have posted my comments.