Are all scientists this stupid?

[Haz.]

Not the latest, but whatever.


If a woman is raped, and nobody catches her, she has to get married to the rapist, who must pay a small fine to the father of the woman for the damaged property. If you attack a city in the name of god, you should murder all the women, children, and noncombatants. If there's a tree that's out of season and Jesus is hungry, he will curse and kill the tree for not having fruit. Whether it's a curse like "fark you, tree" or some magic spell he casts, the text isn't clear.
What meaning did you get out of those passages?

What would you call a human who murders every person who offends him? What about one who, after a battle, orders all of the surrendering or defeated people to be killed, men, women, and children? How about one who slowly kills his friend's baby because that friend cheated on his wife? If that same person demanded unrelenting praise?

I'd call that man petty and a tyrant. Of course, that description is of god from the christian bible: gen 6:7, deut 2:33-36, 2sam12:15-18, nah1:2. One making excuses for such an abusive person would be considered suffering from Stockholm Syndrome or battered person syndrome, yet when one does the same thing for Yahweh, they're called righteous. It's a double standard I cannot hold. These are just a few examples of the cruelties and injustices carried out by that god or in that god's name. Hardly rambling, but simple examples.

If you have never read any other religious texts, have never investigated what other beliefs exist, how do you know yours to be correct? How do you even know you have no need to, if you have never done even the most cursory research?

Genesis 6:7, "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Its easy to pick scripture to bits to suite ones own pet theories and ideas. Do yo know why God said what He said in Gen. 6:7? Go back a few verses and have a look for yourself. "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." (Genesis 6:5-6).

But Noah found grace with God and he, his family and animals were spared. (Gen. 6:9).

If you begin in Deutoronomy 2:11, you will find the land God was sending Israel to posess was was full of giants. Its the giants and their offspring God wanted destroyed and He helped Israel do this.

Why did God allow the child to die? 2 Samuel 12:15-18.

To get the truth rather than accusing God of being a tyrant, start reading in 2 Samuel 11:2-27. King David stole Uraih's wife, got her pregnant, tried to lure Uriah into bed with his wife to cover the pregnancy, that faied so David set uriah up to be killed and had him killed. David married Uriahs wife and hoped everything would be ok.

Continue to read in 2 Samuel 12:1-12. God reminded David that what David did, he did in secret. To teach David a lesson, God said, what I will do to you I do openly for all to see just what kind of king you are.

"For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun."

David realised what God did and had to do. Continue reading 2 Samuel 2:12 through to verse 24, to get the big picture.

You mentioned Nahum 1:2, "God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies."

Keep reading, Nahum 1:3, "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet."

He's the creator and He makes the rules, not you, not me, He does. We can either live by His rules or not. One thing He gives all of us is free moral agency. We can do as we please whilst we are alive on this earth.

A close friend of mine once said to me, "Haz, I dont know whether God exists or not, but one thing I will never do," What will you never do I asked him? He replied, "I will never put sh*t on God, just in case He does exist."

Smart fellow, dont you think.

 

[Tawnos]

Battered spouse syndrome is a sad, sad thing to see

Genesis 6:7, "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Its easy to pick scripture to bits to suite ones own pet theories and ideas. Do yo know why God said what He said in Gen. 6:7? Go back a few verses and have a look for yourself. "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." (Genesis 6:5-6).

But Noah found grace with God and he, his family and animals were spared. (Gen. 6:9).

And the kids in this fable who were murdered? Are you going to spout that line about the sins of the father being passed down? Because that's a huge load of crap, and you'd have to be morally impaired to buy any of it.

If you begin in Deutoronomy 2:11, you will find the land God was sending Israel to posess was was full of giants. Its the giants and their offspring God wanted destroyed and He helped Israel do this.

Why do the giants have to die? What makes it right to go into someone else's land and say "mine", murder everyone that lived there, and call yourself awesome for doing so? Total. Dick. Move.

Why did God allow the child to die? 2 Samuel 12:15-18.

To get the truth rather than accusing God of being a tyrant, start reading in 2 Samuel 11:2-27. King David stole Uraih's wife, got her pregnant, tried to lure Uriah into bed with his wife to cover the pregnancy, that faied so David set uriah up to be killed and had him killed. David married Uriahs wife and hoped everything would be ok.

So it's fine and dandy for a person to torture a child to death because the person's father cheated and lied about it, then murdered the husband of the person who they impregnated? How is this justice, and do you really think that you've helped your case? Why torture and murder a kid because you don't like the parents, unless you're an *******?

Continue to read in 2 Samuel 12:1-12. God told davidwhat you did, you did in secret. To teach you a lessonwhat I will do to you I do openly for all to see just what kindof king you are.

"For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun."

David realised what God did and had to do. Continue reading 2 Samuel 2:12 through to verse 24, to get the big picture.

Again, torture of a child for the wrongs of the father is neither moral nor just. Imagine if we tortured and killed the children of any convicted murderer. Would you consider that right?

You mentioned Hahum 1:2, "God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies."

Keep reading, Nahum 1:3, "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet."

A perfect being that is jealous, that gets angry and furious, and that takes revenge for wrongs done. First off, perfection and jealousy seem mutually incompatible, don't they? Second, if a being is all powerful, why even allow something to happen that needs to be avenged?

He's the creator and He makes the rules, not you, not me, He does. We can either live by His rules or not. One thing He gives all of us is free moral agency. We can do as we please whilst we are alive on this earth.

Or it doesn't exist and you're just making up bad excuses to justify barbaric stories.

A close friend of mine once said to me, "Haz, I dont know whether God exists or not, but one thing I will never do," What will you never do I asked him? He replied, "I will never put **** on God, just in case He does exist."

Smart fellow, dont you think.

No, not smart, coward. **** the god you've defended above. He's cruel and you've allowed yourself to be brainwashed into defending the evil ascribed to him.

 

[Haz.]

tawnos

Just as I expected you would respond. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Personally, I dont give a flying Kahoona whether you believe in God, a God, many God's, the devil, or no god at all.

your wrote

"No, not smart, coward. **** the god you've defended above. He's cruel and you've allowed yourself to be brainwashed into defending the evil ascribed to him."

.

I havent defended God at all. I did suggest you read a little more than one or two scriptures before you make up your mind on a doctrin.

Anyway we all know you dont believe in God, and who beside you yourself gives a sh*t? I certainly dont, and I doubt anyone else here does.

Regarding my friend, You know nothing about him. He said HE DID NOT KNOW if God EXISTED OR NOT, and he has enough smarts not to mock God.

 

[1245A Defender]

i agree...

i didnt read the bible,,,, but i did read this...

Things Learned From Reading Every Single Word of the Bible | Spectrum

Mar 3, 2009 ... David Plotz, editor of Slate, read through the entire Old Testament and blogged about it sans fancy hermeneutics.
www.spectrummagazine.org/node/1472 - Cached

i wont mock god either, and i have prayed for the sake of others, never for my self.

just in case!!:uhoh:

 

[eye95]

Why would anyone who does not believe in God spend so much energy trying to deny Him? It would seem to me that a real atheist wouldn't really care all that much that other people believe in God. He'd shrug it off as inconsequential.

I have to wonder if militant atheists, in actuality, believe, on some level, that God is quite real, but are just denying His authority.

Of course, we are all permitted to deny God's authority. The consequence is, ironically, that we end up being tragically right.

 

[Tawnos]

Why would anyone who does not believe in God spend so much energy trying to deny Him? It would seem to me that a real atheist wouldn't really care all that much that other people believe in God. He'd shrug it off as inconsequential.

I have to wonder if militant atheists, in actuality, believe, on some level, that God is quite real, but are just denying His authority.

Of course, we are all permitted to deny God's authority. The consequence is, ironically, that we end up being tragically right.

AHHAHAHAHAHHAH Seriously?

I did address this earlier: "I don't hate god, the same as I don't hate the easter bunny: both don't exist. However, one has a much greater impact on my life, because unlike the Easter bunny, grown adults still believe the stories written by nomadic sheep herders. They vote based on this irrationality, they judge others, they ignore the significant issues with their own belief systems while criticizing others'. "

The fact you and others take as divine truth the writings of a group of goatherders makes me concerned. Why? Because that irrationality permeates our political process, and it does so in a negative fashion. Let's skip the "No true Scotsmen" BS, eh?

 

[Tawnos]

I havent defended God at all. I did suggest you read a little more than one or two scriptures before you make up your mind on a doctrin.

I have certainly read more of the Bible than a couple verses. I simply pulled those verses to directly address my questions of morality, which you then ignored. You certainly do try to defend god in saying that his torture, rape fantasies, and violent impulses are justified. I simply point out the double standard you must hold to do that.

I wonder for you (and eye95) the same thing I asked rodbender: what other works that people consider "holy" have you read?

Anyway we all know you dont believe in God, and who beside you yourself gives a sh*t? I certainly dont, and I doubt anyone else here does.

Clearly the proselytizing believers give more than a shiat. When something breaks through that shell of nonthinking you erect around yourself to separate your believing side from your thinking one, it results in a retaliatory backlash against the potential shift in axiom.

Regarding my friend, You know nothing about him. He said HE DID NOT KNOW if God EXISTED OR NOT, and he has enough smarts not to mock God.

If I claim to have an invisible dragon in my closet, and you mock it, does that make you stupid? I mean, it could burn you to a crisp! (...if it existed)
So it is with your delusions. I know that the god you've proposed to believe in is logically incoherent and impossible within the universe we occupy. Thus, I have no fear of saying things like "the god of your myths is a douchebag." We're talking about characters in a story here, not a real being. Only, it seems only a few of us have realized it.

 

[Haz.]

I have certainly read more of the Bible than a couple verses. I simply pulled those verses to directly address my questions of morality, which you then ignored. You certainly do try to defend god in saying that his torture, rape fantasies, and violent impulses are justified. I simply point out the double standard you must hold to do that.

I wonder for you (and eye95) the same thing I asked rodbender: what other works that people consider "holy" have you read?


Clearly the proselytizing believers give more than a shiat. When something breaks through that shell of nonthinking you erect around yourself to separate your believing side from your thinking one, it results in a retaliatory backlash against the potential shift in axiom.


If I claim to have an invisible dragon in my closet, and you mock it, does that make you stupid? I mean, it could burn you to a crisp! (...if it existed)
So it is with your delusions. I know that the god you've proposed to believe in is logically incoherent and impossible within the universe we occupy. Thus, I have no fear of saying things like "the god of your myths is a douchebag." We're talking about characters in a story here, not a real being. Only, it seems only a few of us have realized it.

Sadly Tawnos, your signature says it all.

"The more I learn, the less I know."

.

Fortunately every normal human being is born with God created, in built natural physical instinctive survival traits, such as crying, breathing, moving etc. Sadly, if several of these main life supporting traits are not developed the baby usually dies.

All are born without knowledge, untill gained as they grow in knowledge, of their environment, the physical world they live in, math, science, physics, astromony, and everything else we learn as we pass along lifes highway. As human beings grow, they gain knowledge. So, starting from no knowledge at all to gaining knowledge along the way, normal human beings are blessed with the knowledge that the more they learn the more they actually know.

Sadly, you seem to be missing this attribute most normal healthy people have?

"The more I learn, the more I do know."

 

[Tawnos]

Sadly Tawnos, your signature says it all.

.

Fortunately every normal human being is born with God created, in built natural physical instinctive survival traits, such as crying, breathing, moving etc. Sadly, if several of these main life supporting traits are not developed the baby usually dies.

All are born without knowledge, untill gained as they grow in knowledge, of their environment, the physical world they live in, math, science, physics, astromony, and everything else we learn as we pass along lifes highway. As human beings grow, they gain knowledge. So, starting from no knowledge at all to gaining knowledge along the way, normal human beings are blessed with the knowledge that the more they learn the more they actually know.

Sadly, you seem to be missing this attribute most normal healthy people have?

"The more I learn, the more I do know."

Do you really not get it? The quote relates to what you "know" in relation to the sphere of possible knowledge of known fields. Certainly, as you fill your brain with facts, your knowledge of those things grows. However, the more you learn, the more fields you're exposed to. Also, the more you're exposed to depths of field you already knew about, but were not an expert upon. Thus, though your sum total of knowledge may increase, your relative knowledge decreases.

This all comes back to a study I read a few years ago related to a person's self-assessment and how accurate it was compared to their actual ability or knowledge of a subject field. Those who had the most knowledge tended to rate themselves most accurately on the test, and often somewhat understated their own abilities. Those who were ignorant tended to think they knew better than they really did; they vastly overstated their abilities.

Thus, the more one learns, the less they know... in relation to the entirety of what they see they *could* know.

 

[Brimstone Baritone]

Why do you blame God for the evil committed in His name? It seems the more logical thing to do would be to condemn the person(s) committing the evil act for doing the evil act without bringing the reasons into it.

If Fred murders 18 people and says he did it because his rabbit told him to, do you blame the rabbit? Do you claim that the rabbit couldn't possibly be a good rabbit if it told Fred to murder 18 people? Do you claim that the rabbit owned by Susan is just as evil as the rabbit that told Fred to murder 18 people? What if Susan owns the same rabbit, after Fred, but it never tells her to murder people? Is it not really the same rabbit? Is she just deluding herself and ignoring what the rabbit 'really' says? Was Susan just not a faithful rabbit owner?

If people claim to understand God, and try to teach that understanding to other people, the message is going to be twisted by the beliefs and prejudices of those people. If you truly want to understand God, he will reveal Himself to you. If you truly want to ignore/disbelieve God, He will do the same to you. Why isn't that good enough for you?

*You, in this post, isn't necessarily just Tawnos, so don't anyone take it personal.


As for the 'More I learn, less I know' quote, I agree 100%. To put it another way: "The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds." (John F. Kennedy). Or how about "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." (Socrates, paraphrased)

Myself, I try to stick to: "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." (Albert Einstein)

 

[Venator]

Sadly Tawnos, your signature says it all.

.

Fortunately every normal human being is born with God created, in built natural physical instinctive survival traits, such as crying, breathing, moving etc. ."

As does every living thing, why have you excluded them. Evolution explains a lot more than the Bible.

If this is your proof of god, well....

 

[Haz.]

As does every living thing, why have you excluded them. Evolution explains a lot more than the Bible.

If this is your proof of god, well....

I proved it to myself. I dont think I have never once stated that I was proving anything to anyone else? If I have said this, i dont remember?

Personally and sincerely, not picking on anyone here, I dont care in the least what anyone else believes. All I am doing is joining the conversation, starting with I once never believed in God, I tried to prove His non-existence by a comprehensive bible study, and found out "I" was wrong. Others may do the same thing and and prove me wrong, although I dont think it can be done? Haz.

 

[Tawnos]

Why do you blame God for the evil committed in His name? It seems the more logical thing to do would be to condemn the person(s) committing the evil act for doing the evil act without bringing the reasons into it.

If Fred murders 18 people and says he did it because his rabbit told him to, do you blame the rabbit? Do you claim that the rabbit couldn't possibly be a good rabbit if it told Fred to murder 18 people? Do you claim that the rabbit owned by Susan is just as evil as the rabbit that told Fred to murder 18 people? What if Susan owns the same rabbit, after Fred, but it never tells her to murder people? Is it not really the same rabbit? Is she just deluding herself and ignoring what the rabbit 'really' says? Was Susan just not a faithful rabbit owner?

How do you separate one from the other? Can you?

What about those instances in the bible where god commits acts we consider evil, e.g. murdering/ordering the murder of infants, children, etc in war?

If people claim to understand God, and try to teach that understanding to other people, the message is going to be twisted by the beliefs and prejudices of those people. If you truly want to understand God, he will reveal Himself to you. If you truly want to ignore/disbelieve God, He will do the same to you. Why isn't that good enough for you?

What if I am open to the idea, but thus far have heard nothing but the bleating of sheep? God (of all religions, mind you) has had many opportunities to show it/they exist(s), and has failed at every turn. Either it/they really doesn't/don't want me to believe, or there is no supernatural being who gives a rat's ass.

*You, in this post, isn't necessarily just Tawnos, so don't anyone take it personal.

I seldom take anything personally. This is a discussion in the abstract, if you can't deal with that you shouldn't be online.

As for the 'More I learn, less I know' quote, I agree 100%. To put it another way: "The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds." (John F. Kennedy). Or how about "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." (Socrates, paraphrased)

Myself, I try to stick to: "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." (Albert Einstein)

Glad somebody else sees it.

 

[Venator]

I proved it to myself. I dont think I have never once stated that I was proving anything to anyone else? If I have said this, i dont remember?

Personally and sincerely, not picking on anyone here, I dont care in the least what anyone else believes. All I am doing is joining the conversation, starting with I once never believed in God, I tried to prove His non-existence by a comprehensive bible study, and found out "I" was wrong. Others may do the same thing and and prove me wrong, although I dont think it can be done? Haz.

You proved nothing to yourself, you choose to believe based on faith. That's fine, but just admit that there is no proof that god exists, but that you choose to believe.

I know there is no proof that god exists and choose not to believe.

Have you read other books on the subject other than the bilble?

 

[Haz.]

You proved nothing to yourself, you choose to believe based on faith. That's fine, but just admit that there is no proof that god exists, but that you choose to believe.

I know there is no proof that god exists and choose not to believe.

Have you read other books on the subject other than the bilble?

You say you know there is no profe god exists andyou chose not to believe. Thats ok, I dont mind at all. Thats your free will descision and you have every right to exercise it.

And yes, I have read many other books on the subject beside the Bible. No one has proved to me that God doesnt exist. So were even I suppose? Lol.

All of these prophesies in the Old Testament were made hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years before Jesus Christ Himself was born. There were many people of His time who saw Him before and even after His death. Looking in the face of how He literally fulfilled them all these prophecies which were written hundreds and even thousands of years before He was even born. It is an impossibility that He is not Messiah. The only person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus Christ. Check them out for yourself if you have the inclination, I did and I'm convinced. Truly, theres nothing more toit. We as free moral agents can either believe or not? I'ts no big deal.


Fulfilled Prophecy Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture New Testament,

Link, http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/index.htm


His pre-existence Micah 5:2 John 1:1, 14
Born of the seed of a woman Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18
Of the seed of Abraham Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16
All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Genesis 12:3 Matthew 8:5, 10
God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering Genesis 22:8 John 1:29
From the tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1-3
Heir to the throne of David Isaiah 9:6-7 Matthew 1:1
Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18
His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
Declared to be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17
His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Malachi 4:5-6 Luke 1:17
Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:7-11
Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3
Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Deuteronomy 18:15 Matthew 2:15
Called out of Egypt Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:15
Slaughter of the children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew2:18
Would be a Nazarene Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11;
Lam. 4:7 Matthew 2:23
Brought light to Zabulon & Nephthalm, Galilee of the Gentiles Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:15
Presented with gifts Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:1, 11
Rejected by His own Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31, 12:10; Luke 9:22, 17:25
He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone Psalm 118:22-23; Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42; I Peter 2:7
A stone of stumbling to Israel Isaiah 8:14-15 I Peter 2:8
He entered Jerusalem as a king
riding on an ass Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:5
Betrayed by a friend Psalms 41:9 John 13:21
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5
The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 27:9-10
The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:5
Forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7 Matthew 26:56
Accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:60
Silent to accusations Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:14
Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb Isaiah 35:5-6; Isaiah 29:18 Matthew 11:5
Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives Isaiah 61:1 Matthew 11:5
Came to bring a sword, not peace Micah 7:6 Matthew 10:34-35
He bore our sickness Isaiah 53:4 Matthew 8:16-17
Spat upon, smitten and scourged Isaiah 50:6, 53:5 Matthew 27:26, 30
Smitten on the cheek Micah 5:1 Matthew 27:30
Hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 Matthew 27:23
The sacrificial lamb Isaiah 53:5 John 1:29
Given for a covenant Isaiah 42:6; Jeremiah 31:31-34 Romans 11:27/Galatians 3:17, 4:24/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10; 10:16, 29; 12:24; 13:20
Would not strive or cry Isaiah 42:2-3 Mark 7:36
People would hear not and see not Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:14-15
People trust in traditions of men Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:9
People give God lip service Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:8
God delights in Him Isaiah 42:1 Matthew 3:17, 17:5
Wounded for our sins Isaiah 53:5 John 6:51
He bore the sins of many Isaiah 53:10-12 Mark 10:45
Messiah not killed for Himself Daniel 9:26 Matthew 20:28
Gentiles flock to Him Isaiah 55:5, 60:3, 65:1; Malachi 1:11;
II Samuel 22:44-45; Psalm 2:7-8 Matthew 8:10
Crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:35
His body was pierced Zechariah 12:10; Ps. 22:16 John 20:25, 27
Thirsty during execution Psalm 22:16 John 19:28
Given vinegar and gall for thirst Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
Soldiers gambled for his garment Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35
People mocked, "He trusted in God, let Him deliver him!" Psalm 22:7-8 Matthew 27:43
People sat there looking at Him Psalm 22:17 Matthew 27:36
Cried, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
Darkness over the land Amos 8:9 Matthew 27:45
No bones broken Psalm 34:20, Numbers 9:12 John 19:33-36
Side pierced Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
Buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57, 60
Resurrected from the dead Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Mark 16:6
Priest after the order of Melchizedek Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6; 6:20; 7:15-17
Ascended to right hand of God Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51
LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool Psalm 110:1 Matt 22:44; Mark 12:36;, 16:19; Luke 20:42-43; Acts 2:34-35; Hebrews 1:13
His coming glory Malachi 3:2-3 Luke 3:17.

 

[Haz.]

When I found and read things like these I had to admit there was no possible way a human being could have evolved over thousnads of years from a something crawling out of the water, eventuall turning into a monkey and then a human being?

Read this and try and convince me this was an accident of evolution?

The Incredible Human Body Link to page; http://www.bibleufo.com/guide.htm

The human body is the finest multifaceted organism in the natural world. When coupled with the most complicated and sophisticated central processing unit ever devised, the human brain, it stands alone as the quintessence of living entities.


· The Brain

The human brain is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter known in the universe. It controls over 100 billion nerve cells and generates more electrical impulses in a single day than all of the world's telephones put together moving at speeds from 150 to 250 miles per hour. This network uses nearly 45 miles of nerves that are powered by more bioelectricity than produced by a 120-volt battery. At least 100,000 different chemical reactions occur in the brain every second. The number of possible different combinations of synaptic connections among neurons in a single human brain is larger than the total number of atomic particles that make up the known universe. The storage capacity is estimated to exceed 4 terabytes. It can store, recognize and remember 10,000 different odors and differentiate between up to eight million colors and 500 shades of gray. It is estimated that there are between 100 and 200 hundred billion neurons in a brain and seven million brain cells are used each day. A newly formed nerve cell is called a neuroblast.

The brain reaches its maximum weight, three pounds, at age 20 but begins to lose cells at a rate of 50,000 per day by the age of 30. A baby's brain has its full complement of neurons by the sixth month of gestation and grows at a rate of more than 13,000 neurons per second up until this time. The soft mass of the adult brain is motionless but is surrounded by a membrane containing veins and arteries. The brain itself has no feeling, therefore, the pain of a headache comes not from the organ itself, but from the nerve and muscles lining it. The brain is composed of 85% water and on average comprises 2 percent of the total body weight, yet it requires 25 percent of all oxygen used, as opposed to 7 percent by the heart. Cholesterol makes up 15 percent of the brain by dry weight. The brain is more active sleeping than it is watching TV.

The short-term memory capacity for most people is between five and nine items or digits. This is one reason that phone numbers were kept to seven digits. A recent study found that 75 percent of headache patients felt relief when they rubbed capsaicin (the component that makes chili peppers hot) on their nose. A bowl of lime Jell-O, when hooked up to an EEG machine, exhibits activity, which is virtually identical to the brain waves of a healthy adult man or woman. Thomas Edison said, "The chief function of the body is to carry the brain around”, however Aristotle believed the main purpose of the human brain was to cool the blood. Even after death, the human brain continues to produce electrical wave signals for up to a day and a half

· The Heart

The heart of an adult beats about 70 to 80 beats per minute, 100,000 times every day, 40 million times a year and in 70 years it will have beaten 2½ billion times. A female heart beats about 10 times per minute faster than a male’s. The rate can increase to as much as 200 per minute during heavy exercise. As a pump it produces enough pressure to shoot a stream 30 feet, produce enough energy in an hour to lift 2000 lb. 3 feet off the ground, and efficiently circulate 50 million gallons over the average lifetime. In one year, the average human heart circulates from 770,000 to 1.6 million gallons of blood through the body. This is enough fluid to fill 200 tank cars, each with a capacity of 8,000 gallons. There are enough tiny blood vessels called capillaries that if placed end to end they would stretch over 2 times around the earth. All this is done with just over a gallon of blood which circulates 1,000 times in a single day through the body on a daily 60,000-mile journey, 168,000,000 miles in a lifetime. 25 trillion cells travel through the bloodstream, but a stack of 500 would only measure 0.04 inches high. The human heart rests between beats. In an average lifetime of 70 years, the total resting time is estimated to be about 40 years.

Red blood cells live for a period of only four months and travel between the lungs and other tissues 75,000 times before returning to the bone marrow to die, being replaced by the bone marrow at the rate of 2 to 3 million a second. Men have more blood, 1.5 gallons as compared to 0.875 gallons for women. The most common blood type in the world is Type O accounting for about 46% of the world's population. However, in some areas, other blood groups predominate. The most rare, Type A-H, has been found in less than a dozen people since the type was discovered. According to research, the risk of heart attack is higher on Monday than any other day of the week. A child has 60,000 miles of blood vessels, in an adult there are 100,000. The stethoscope was invented so that doctors could listen to a woman's heart without having to touch her. The native people of the Andes Mountains in South America have 2 to 3 more quarts of blood in their bodies than people who live at lower elevations.

· The Eyes

As you focus on each word in this sentence, your eyes swing back and forth 100 times a second, and every second the retina performs 10 billion computer-like calculations. The eyes can perceive more than 1 million simultaneous visual impressions, are able to discriminate among nearly 8 million gradations of color, can distinguish about 500 different shades of gray, and take in more information than the world’s largest telescope. Each time the eye blinks, over 200 muscles move and you blink 25 times a minute or over 6 million times each year. The retina inside the eye covers about 650 square millimeters and contains some 137 million light-sensitive cells; 130 million rod cells for black and white vision and 7 million cone cells for color vision. To focus all this, the muscles of the eye move 100,000 times a day. An eye weighs 1.25 ounces. By the age of 60, our eyes have been exposed to more light energy than would be released by a nuclear blast. Sight accounts for 90 to 95 percent of all sensory perceptions.

The human eye sees everything upside down, but the brain turns it right side up, with an average field of vision encompassing a 200-degree wide angle. Your ears and nose continue to grow throughout your entire life but your eyes are the same size from birth to death. A bird's eye takes up about 50 percent of its head; human eyes take up about 5 percent of the head. To be comparable to a bird's eyes, human eyes would have to be the size of baseballs. If you go blind in one eye, you'll loose only one-fifth of your vision, but lose all your depth perception. The only part of the human body that has no blood supply is the cornea; it takes its oxygen directly from the air.

Newborn babies are not blind but have approximately 20/50 vision and can easily discriminate between degrees of brightness. The daughters of a mother who is colorblind and a father who has normal vision will have normal vision. However, the sons will be colorblind. While 7 men in 100 have some form of colorblindness, only 1 woman in 1,000 suffers from it. The most common form of color blindness is a red-green deficiency. People are the only animals in the world who cry tears. Onion Tears are caused by an irritant in onions known as brominates molecules which react with the water on the eye to produces an acid which the eye removes by producing tears. Those stars and colors you see when you close and rub your eyes are called phosphenes.

Two out of three adults in the United Sates wear glasses at some time. While reading a page of print, the eyes do not move continually across the page. They move in a series of jumps, called "fixations," from one clump of words to the next. Though more comfortable with daylight, given enough time to adjust, the human eye can, for a time, see almost as well as an owl's. The sensitivity of the human eye is so keen that on a clear, moonless night, a person standing on a mountain can see a match being struck as far as 50 miles away. Much to their amazement, astronauts in orbit were able to see the wakes of ships. When you have a black eye, you have a bilateral periorbital hematoma. The pupil of the eye expands as much as 45 percent when a person looks at something pleasing.

· The Ears

Our hearing is so sensitive it can distinguish between hundreds of thousands of different sounds. Between ages 30 and 70, the ears may be a quarter-inch longer due to the fact that cartilage is one of the few tissues that continue to grow as we age. A human can hear the tick of a watch from 6 meters in very quiet conditions. Sounds too low for human beings to hear are called infrasonic. The easiest sound for the human ear to hear, and those which carry best when pronounced, are, in order, "ah," "aw," "eh," and "oo." Permanent hearing loss can result from prolonged exposure to sounds at 85 decibels (0 decibels is the threshold for hearing). For comparison, a busy street corner is about 80 decibels, a subway train from 20 feet is 100 decibels, a jet plane from 500 feet is 110 decibels, and loud thunder is 120 decibels. A rock band amplified at close range is 140 decibels, more than 100,000 times as loud as the level that will produce permanent hearing loss. The African bushman lives in a quiet, remote environment and has no measurable hearing loss at age 60.

· The Nose

The nose cleans, warms or cools, filters, and humidifies over 500 cubic feet of air every day. It monitors and classifies over 10,000 different odors and the sense of smell is so keen that it can detect the odors of certain substances even when they are diluted to 1 part to 30 billion. A human can detect one drop of perfume diffused throughout a three-room apartment. It is totally impossible to sneeze with your eyes open. A sneeze can exceed the speed of 100 mph and when you sneeze, all bodily functions stop, even the heart. Most people by the age of sixty have lost 40 percent of their ability to smell. Your thumb is the same length as your nose.

· The Mouth

The average human has about 10,000 taste buds. Those on the tongue are divided into four groups; the tip taste buds sense sweetness; those at the back sense bitterness; the sides sense saltiness and sourness. All the more complex tastes are made up of combinations of the basic four. However, not all taste buds are on the tongue. Some are under the tongue; some are on the inside of the cheeks; some are on the roof of the mouth. Some can even be found on the lips, which are especially sensitive to salt. The sense of taste can detect sweetness in a solution of 1 part sugar to 200 parts water and one gram of salt in 500 liters of water. The average lifespan of a human being's taste bud is 7-10 days. By age sixty, most people have lost half of their taste buds. The strongest muscle in the body is the tongue and every person has a unique tongue print. Pigs, dogs, and some other animals can taste water, but people cannot. Humans don't actually taste water; they taste the chemicals and impurities in the water. 85% of the population can curl their tongue into a tube.

The tooth is the only part of the human body that can't repair itself and tooth enamel is the hardest of all substances manufactured by the human body. Each tooth contains about 55 miles of canals for a total of over 1700 miles. There are 20 baby teeth and 32 adult teeth. False teeth are often radioactive. Approximately 1 million Americans wear some form of denture; half of these dentures are made of a porcelain compound laced with minute amounts of uranium to stimulate fluorescence. Without the uranium additive, the dentures would be a dull green color when seen under artificial light. If you are right-handed, you will tend to chew your food on the right side of the mouth. If you are left-handed, you will tend to chew your food on the left. A pack-a-day smoker will loose approximately 2 teeth every 10 years.

It requires the use of 72 muscles to speak a single word. Whispering is more wearing on your voice than a normal speaking tone. Whispering and shouting stretch the vocal cords. A normal person has two true vocal chords and two false vocal chords, which have no direct role in producing sound. The mouth makes one liter of saliva a day and over a lifetime produces enough to fill two swimming pools. Every time you lick a stamp, you're consuming 1/10 of a calorie. Up to the age of six or seven months, a child can breathe and swallow at the same time. An adult cannot do this. Seeing another person yawn makes it likely that you will yawn yourself. Thinking about, even reading about yawning, can cause a yawn.

All this could not have happened by accidental evolutionary trial and error untill perfection was attained? One error along the way and it would have all ended before it even began.

Saying a human being evolved like trying to convince me that the largest atomic aircraft carrier in the US Navy evolved all by itself over thousands of years, including all the aircraft on the flight deck and below, the atomic engines which drive the ship, the electronics which control it under mans direction, the radar systems, the aircraft fuel, the engineers, the sailors, the support ships, all evolved, by themselves, and the lot of it, apart from the human beings on board are in fact dead inanimate material things. The ship cannot think for itself, neither can the FA18's on board. But a human being designed it all, human beings drew up the p[lans for it all, human beings built it all, they control it all, The created it all. If human beings evolved, then so did aircraft carriers, in my opinion. Haz.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

AHHAHAHAHAHHAH Seriously?

I did address this earlier: "I don't hate god, the same as I don't hate the easter bunny: both don't exist. However, one has a much greater impact on my life, because unlike the Easter bunny, grown adults still believe the stories written by nomadic sheep herders. They vote based on this irrationality, they judge others, they ignore the significant issues with their own belief systems while criticizing others'. "

The fact you and others take as divine truth the writings of a group of goatherders makes me concerned. Why? Because that irrationality permeates our political process, and it does so in a negative fashion. Let's skip the "No true Scotsmen" BS, eh?

After having read most of this thread I have come to the conclusion that Tawnos is not an atheist but is an agnostic and doesn't really know what he believes and is therefore not worthy of anyone's effort whatsoever on this subject. The best way to shut him up is to totally ignore him on this subject.

 

[Tawnos]

After having read most of this thread I have come to the conclusion that Tawnos is not an atheist but is an agnostic and doesn't really know what he believes and is therefore not worthy of anyone's effort whatsoever on this subject. The best way to shut him up is to totally ignore him on this subject.

After having read all of your post I have come to the conclusion that you are clueless and don't really know what those two words mean. The best way to not make a fool of yourself is to shut up and not comment further on this subject.

Things exist in more than one dimension. I am an agnostic atheist, of the tooth fairy variety.

 

[Tawnos]

You say you know there is no profe god exists andyou chose not to believe. Thats ok, I dont mind at all. Thats your free will descision and you have every right to exercise it.

And yes, I have read many other books on the subject beside the Bible. No one has proved to me that God doesnt exist. So were even I suppose? Lol.

All of these prophesies in the Old Testament were made hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years before Jesus Christ Himself was born. There were many people of His time who saw Him before and even after His death. Looking in the face of how He literally fulfilled them all these prophecies which were written hundreds and even thousands of years before He was even born. It is an impossibility that He is not Messiah. The only person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus Christ. Check them out for yourself if you have the inclination, I did and I'm convinced. Truly, theres nothing more toit. We as free moral agents can either believe or not? I'ts no big deal.
*snip of copy/paste*

Here's a question, how do you even know Jesus was born? Read Choking on the Camel and see if you can answer me some simple questions:
Why don't any contemporary historians alive at the time Jesus supposedly was make any mention of him? Famous historians who documented practically every natural phenomena, such as Pliny the Elder, document no earthquake or darkness at the time of supposed crucifixion. No contemporary historian reports on the earthquake, risen saints, etc.

What about the internal contradictions caused when certain biblical writers misinterpreted old passages and recorded two different accounts of what he supposedly did? E.g. Jesus riding on [strike]one[/strike] two donkeys. If you're going to copy-paste supposedly fulfilled prophecies, shouldn't you make sure the writers who were meant to confirm their fulfillment didn't have access to the same prophecies, and perhaps misinterpret a few or them in writing about how they were fulfilled?

Read the rest of Choking on the Camel, and address what you can.

 

[Tawnos]

When I found and read things like these I had to admit there was no possible way a human being could have evolved over thousnads of years from a something crawling out of the water, eventuall turning into a monkey and then a human being?

Your first misconception is that we evolved from monkeys into humans. The correct answer is that monkeys and humans shared a common ancestor. Think of it like language, both German and English share common roots, perhaps even the same base language (among many other languages with latin or greek origins) but as geography separated those languages, they began to drift apart. After years of separation, the two were no longer compatible. They had evolved into new languages, and if you take a modern day speaker of German and English, put him or her into a room with a person who speaks the language both came from, who do you think would understand each other? Almost nobody, though there would be a lot of signs of shared origin and perhaps even some words that still are communicable, even though they are no longer compatible for a full conversation.

The same thing happens in (one of the forms of) evolution. Two sexually isolated populations of the same species undergo slow mutations that eventually results in them being sexually incompatible with each other. Though there are a number of similarities in the resulting outcomes, there is a fundamental incompatibility due to the changes experienced.

Read this and try and convince me this was an accident of evolution?

You're going to try to make an irreducible complexity argument? Have you ever even studied these things in detail?

How about this, I'll point out the shortcomings of each, and you try to convince me that a perfect, almighty creator would allow such imperfections or limitations in its design?

· The Brain

The brain is easily damaged and prone to numerous ailments that limit its ability to function. The cage it is held in can confine and damage it under a number of circumstances (e.g. concussion, dehydration, hyperhydration...). The combination of chemical and electrical reactions is much slower than a comparable all-electrical system. Connections to the organism are suboptimal, such as the recurrent laryngeal nerve, which wraps around the aortic arch, rather than connecting directly to the the larynx. The natural responses produced by the brain, such as breathing, are not triggered by lack of oxygen, but abundance of carbon dioxide. Thus, under numerous circumstances the brain can be tricked into starving itself of needed oxygen, such as when at high altitude, after hyperventilating, etc.

· The Heart

The heart does not need to pump, and could be a continually flowing device. In simplifying this, blood pressure and various internal tears, ruptures, etc due to the pumping action could be reduced or eliminated. Moreover, the system would no longer need a bag of fluid to hold it while it spazzes around. Even better, why not make us in a manner that we don't even require blood? Hell, we're talking about a theoretical creator who made all of the laws of life and the universe, right? Why not make everything in our body function without blood flow to it? This same criticism applies to many aspects of the body, since meat is weak and easily damaged or destroyed.

· The Eyes

The fact the world is perceived upside down and has to be flipped indicates a shortcoming of the eye, not a wonderful design. Our eyes are extremely limited when it comes to the animal kingdom. Our range of frequency is such that we see only a very narrow spectrum of the total EM gradient. We cannot detect the polarization of light. Due to the way our retina is attached, we have a blind spot. Additionally, a number of complex workarounds to the shortcomings of the inside-out retina (that are not present in invertebrates) would be completely obviated by its corrected orientation. Our eyes' lenses are prone to hardening, and indeed almost everyone who lives to old age will experience these cataracts.

· The Ears

The fact our ears can be damaged through exposure to a large vibration indicates a fundamental shortcoming. Our range of hearing, like our sight, is extremely limited compared to the overall spectrum of frequencies available.

· The Nose
· The Mouth

Both inferior to a dog's. We cannot smell nearly as many things, our sense of taste shows preference for foods that are less than optimal to our health. In fact, our strong drive towards sweets and salts and fats indicate an evolutionary background: those drawn towards the much less energy dense forms of food such as plants would have had a much harder time obtaining the needed nutrition.

All this could not have happened by accidental evolutionary trial and error untill perfection was attained? One error along the way and it would have all ended before it even began.

Nothing presented suggests that. In fact, most of what is presented shows fundamental limitations of the system, such as teeth that cannot be repaired, hearing that can be damaged, blood cells with a short lifespan, eyes that wear out or are poorly formed, et cetera. In fact, the imperfections show the many ways certain elements of the body that have been described as "irreducibly complex" by those who don't know any better can be shown to have numerous possible reductions that would be considered evolutionarily advantageous.

When I went to Christian School I remember them telling me that the eye, with its rods and cones and such, could not have formed any way but the Athenic: fully formed from the head of Zeus (er, god?). However, this ignores many such examples in our own world: a person who is only partially blind will be much better than one who is fully blind. Indeed, the light/dark sensitivity alone is a huge advantage, and it's not a system that requires complex rods and cones to activate. Here's a detailed explanation of the breakdown of the eye into its evolutionary background.

Saying a human being evolved like trying to convince me that the largest atomic aircraft carrier in the US Navy evolved all by itself over thousands of years, including all the aircraft on the flight deck and below, the atomic engines which drive the ship, the electronics which control it under mans direction, the radar systems, the aircraft fuel, the engineers, the sailors, the support ships, all evolved, by themselves, and the lot of it, apart from the human beings on board are in fact dead inanimate material things.
The ship cannot think for itself, neither can the FA18's on board. But a human being designed it all, human beings drew up the p[lans for it all, human beings built it all, they control it all, The created it all. If human beings evolved, then so did aircraft carriers, in my opinion.

Are you saying the very first ship ever built was an atomic aircraft carrier, and that it sprung from the mind of a designer fully formed? Or do each of the parts you described come from previous designs, which themselves can be traced thousands of years back to the simplest boat: a few logs used to float something on a river or lake? The fact is that if you look at the history and formation of these craft, they have their evolutionary antecedents, so yes, they most certainly did evolve, though not through naturalistic process.