Stopped by Kent PD today

[Jeff Hayes]

Aaron was there he handled it the way he thought best at the time. Would I have done it different, most likely I would have but that does not make Aaron wrong. Everyone has a different comfort level. I personally am glad Aaron is out there OCing, good for Aaron, good for OC.

 

[BobR]

^^^^^^^

What are you doing on the computer? Aren't you supposed to be hiking, camping or some other such outdoor stuff?!?

bob

 

[911Grunt]

:idea:
Something to think about, when they ask for your ID, you ask them for a business card. If nothing else, you have the officer’s information if a follow up contact to the department is needed about the contact. I would also suggest that as soon as you feel comfortable to do so, jot down on the back the date/time of the contact and when your get home write up a little report to yourself about the contact (remember as many details as possible). This way, if you need it, you have the information; if you don't you can just delete it.

 

[gogodawgs]

^^^^^^^

What are you doing on the computer? Aren't you supposed to be hiking, camping or some other such outdoor stuff?!?

bob

We are camping, isn't technology grand.

 

[amlevin]

We are camping, isn't technology grand.

But camping used to be for those that wanted to "get away from it all". How can anyone do that if you take it all with you?

 

[Trigger Dr]

But camping used to be for those that wanted to "get away from it all". How can anyone do that if you take it all with you?

No, camping is when you express your concern for the less fortunate by pretending to be homless.

 

[Venator]

He was very courteous, and politely asked if he could see it. In the midst of it, he was asking what I was carrying, and a few other questions. Maybe he did know that he couldn't demand it, and that's why he was acting in such a professional manner.

Godwins law: I'm sure some of the Nazi's were polite all the way to the ovens.
Many people know my view on this. If it's not required to give ID then don't, exercise the right to refuse. By doing so you help Mantain a free society.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

^^^^^^^

What are you doing on the computer? Aren't you supposed to be hiking, camping or some other such outdoor stuff?!?

bob

Its raining went for a walk this AM.

Squeak myself, Gogodawgs and Deros saved all of you from the end of the world today, it took a concerted effort but we got er done.

 

[fire suppressor]

I know they are required to show up when they get a man with a gun call, overall it dose not sound to negative of a encounter compared to what I've been reading lately. I also like it when he police admit we have the rift to carry, mind me asking what department they where with?

 

[DevinWKuska]

He asked, you said yes. Not a seizure.

Not a surrender of your fourth amendment rights either. Consensual contacts are consensual. You can begin them or end them any time you wish.

Nice job, good contact. Cop had a sense of humor and handled it with humor.

The whole "ask if he could see it didn't ask if he could run it" is moronic. Anything that can be seen can be run without your specific consent in addition.

LTNS Aaron. Hope things are well.

+1

Regarding RAS... they conronted him becuase someone called the police... I am guessing(though I am not a lawyer) that most people would consider that RAS. Now if it was just them walking up for no good reason and asking... that would be another story. If I call in to the police your license plate and say you were drving aggressively and waving a gun at me, the police would not come to your doorstep in a friendly manner.

"Your rights end at the beginning of my Nose" type situation me thinks. The police had to respond(to a BS call mind you), I for one am pleased that they were atleast polite and friendly. Its alot better then harrasment or getting "Birked."

 

[kenzmad]

Which Safeway was this? I live near the one on the corner of Kent Kangley and 132nd. I have never had an issue at this one. I am not sure what I would have done if in your shoes, although when I am out i usually have one of my kids with me. I don't think I would start a 4A discussion with the PD if my kids are with me. Lots to think about on this one.

kenzmad

 

[carry for myself]

bottom line this cop was a jerk. 90% of us have had LEO encounters. 30% of those encounters were bad 10% were annoying 5% were severe harassment.

however. this cops attitude was just sour. Yes he has the right to ASK. not demand. as the OP had the right to refuse. however.......anyone not just LEO's but anyone. who believes they are in the right, when proven to be wrong feels embarassed. its psychology 101. now 90% of the population will feel insulted when embarassed, and react accordingly. and that reaction ends in frustration, which turns most people into argumentative jerks at that point. best way to deal with it is to play devils advocate to them "yes i see your concern, i know your doing your job...........however"

the OP did everything right here. officer was just expecting some ill informed shmuck, and got a informed citizen instead. and what do deers do in headlights? freeze and if not they run back to what they came from, in this offers case the "you might beat the charge but wont beat the ride" attitude. +1 to OP. -10 to stupid cop lol

 

[Dave_pro2a]

+1

Regarding RAS... they conronted him becuase someone called the police... I am guessing(though I am not a lawyer) that most people would consider that RAS.

So if I call the police on you, right now. Let's say I claim you are growing pot, and I give them your full name and home address.

Then you think that gives the police the right to knock down your door. Detain you. And start to investigate this alleged crime that I reported by calling the police.

Holy crap, that's twisted. It would make getting revenge on people you don't like really, really easy.

 

[1245A Defender]

well,,,

So if I call the police on you, right now. Let's say I claim you are growing pot, and I give them your full name and home address.

Then you think that gives the police the right to knock down your door. Detain you. And start to investigate this alleged crime that I reported by calling the police.

Holy crap, that's twisted. It would make getting revenge on people you don't like really, really easy.

Florida V. J.L. talks to this exact point!
anonymous tips would lead to wholesale infringement of 4A rights by anybody that just happens to be mad at you.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Florida V. J.L. talks to this exact point!
anonymous tips would lead to wholesale infringement of 4A rights by anybody that just happens to be mad at you.

Well damn, another nail in America's pine coffin.

At least OC is actually a lawful activity. Hard to get RAS off a phone call that reports someone doing something that is legal.

 

[maclean]

I think that is an unfair assessment of this particular encounter. We have no idea how the officer would have reacted if Aaron had said, "Sir, I value my 4th amendment rights as much as my 2nd amendment rights and, therefore, I must respectfully decline your offer to check if I am a felon or not, because, at present time, you have no reason to suspect that I am a criminal. My desire is to end this encounter now and I hope you have a nice rest of your day."

One can wonder at things that did not happen their entire life.

Seems to me to be a waste of time.

 

[Citizen]

So if I call the police on you, right now. Let's say I claim you are growing pot, and I give them your full name and home address.

Then you think that gives the police the right to knock down your door. Detain you. And start to investigate this alleged crime that I reported by calling the police.

Holy crap, that's twisted. It would make getting revenge on people you don't like really, really easy.

Devin said he was not a lawyer. He's kinda new at this. He hasn't read up on things like indicia of reliability and confidential informants and whether a 911 caller gave his name and phone number and is thereby maybe actionable for a false report.

You can even tell by the way his post fails to distinguish between anonymous allegations and allegations by someone who fully identifies themselve and describes how they came to know about the violation. Also, its pretty apparent he's half thinking out loud, half making a point.

We can cut him a little slack, no?

 

[fire suppressor]

I know they are required to show up when they get a man with a gun call, overall it dose not sound to negative of a encounter compared to what I've been reading lately. I also like it when he police admit we have the rift to carry, mind me asking what department they where with?

LOL never mind I can answer my own question should have looked at the title more closely its Kent!

 

[sudden valley gunner]

One can wonder at things that did not happen their entire life.

Seems to me to be a waste of time.

We can wonder at what didn't happen in this particular incident. I've seen officers be perfectly polite and nice and the instant you tell them no (ID when not needed, or not wanting to volunteer information) their demeanor changes.

That of course doesn't changed what happens or that Aaron did what he thought was best. But I don't think it's "specious" to argue that those type of arguments immediately capitulating to officers demands might hurt others working for not wanting to give in into unwarranted intrusions into their personal business.

Definition of SPECIOUS
1
obsolete : showy
2
: having deceptive attraction or allure
3
: having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic <specious reasoning>

And I won't complain that you used vocabulary I wouldn't normally have used. Now I have a new word.

 

[heresolong]

We can wonder at what didn't happen in this particular incident. I've seen officers be perfectly polite and nice and the instant you tell them no (ID when not needed, or not wanting to volunteer information) their demeanor changes.

I was pulled over years ago by an officer who was all jolly and happy as he informed me that he hadn't had an opportunity to write a helmet ticket in weeks. When he asked me to remove my helmet I asked if I was under arrest (since they have no right to search you other than for officer safety and there was clearly no firearm tucked up under my beanie helmet). Immediately the joking stopped, he didn't say another word as he wrote the ticket, and when he showed up in court he lied about various aspects of the stop and told the judge that I was belligerent and confrontational. Yeah. They use politeness as a tool. It's part of their job.