• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Radio Commercial has libs going crazy

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
And how is that different than what the WBC believe, that god punishes the wicked? I think you just short yourself in the foot with that one.

Edit: This post us aimed at Frommycolddeadhands whom, I believe, was the one saying that Sodom was condemned for homosexuality.

Posted using my HTC Evo
 
Last edited:

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
He didn't say basic Christianity, he just said elements of Christianity. And what are they? How about:

-Vilifying atheists, science, gays, etc
-Picking and choosing elements of the Bible to follow; the parts about homosexuals and masturbation are mostly found in the Old Testament, but the Old Testament is way to archaic to consider stoning to death our friends and family if they attemp to have us worship another god.
-Claiming one cannot be moral without the Bible. The Bible makes no mention of Slavery being immoral, but we've obviously moved on from that.

Granted, not all Christians are like this (except for picking a choosing-every Christian is guilty of this and you pretty much have to be), and even the ones that are have really good intentions. But even those with good intentions can ruin lives. Christian parents with homosexual children often put them through absolute hell on Earth thinking they can "cure" them of homosexuality. Same with atheist kids. And good luck to those kids that are gay and atheist with oppressive Christian parents.

I don't know how many times I have to beat this horse, but those are not tennants of Christian beliefs. ***Beating head against keyboard at this time***

And yes, picking and chosing what commands to follow or not to follow is a HUGE problem in Christianity. There are some things from the OT that carry over into the NT (such as the Ten Commandments, or the prophesies of the end times, or the basic precept of the Golden Rule) There are other things that drastically change in the NT (such as allowing Jews to eat non-coshire food, no longer requiring circumcision from Gentile converts, the inclusion of the Gentiles into the Holy Covenant, the concept that Christ's death paid for our sins, and therefore stoning your child to death is no longer required.)

I can go on and on, but I really don't wish to hold a Bible study session right this second.

A person has to read the WHOLE BOOK to understand the contexts. Picking one line from the OT and then jumping to another line from the NT is a sure fire way to get the message wrong.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
And how is that different than what the WBC believe, that god punishes the wicked? I think you just short yourself in the foot with that one.
Edit: This post us aimed at Frommycolddeadhands whom, I believe, was the one saying that Sodom was condemned for homosexuality.

*sigh* Oh-kay, if we must.

S&G were twin cities in the book of Genesis. God decided to smite the city because the people were wicked in his eyes (much in the same manner that he flooded the earth in the time of Noah.) This is a trademark of the Old Testement covenant. There was no way of attonement for sins, aside from sacrifice. Sometimes that sacrifice was death.

Enter the New Testement, where Christ came and took the sins of mankind on his own shoulders, and sacrificed himself. Because he paid our atonement we no longer need to sacrifice animals or humans in order to atone for our sins.

So, spiritually we're a lot more covered. We're all equal. "It rains on the just and the unjust alike" and God's punishment for the wicked will come at the end times as written in Armageddon. In the meantime the civil authorities prettymuch have the authority to make laws and punish wrong-doers (and that authority comes from God of course)

Does that answer your question.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
I'm actually doing the opposite. I'm saying that you are picking and choosing what you believe, and it's dishonest to somehow say that your particular choices of parts you like versus parts you ignore is no different than another group who chooses a different set of parts to follow. I'm saying it is YOU who cannot exclude others from the "christian" group because they contradict your particular set of assumptions.

I don't ignore parts of the Bible that I don't like. I've read the Bible cover to cover many times, and yes there are things in the Old Testement that no longer apply in the New Testement.

I'm not picking and chosing what I wish to believe, I'm simply following the scripture. I don't exclude people from the "Christian" group because they don't match my 'assumptions'. I discard their 'assumptions' because they don't mesh with the Scripture.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
Hell, I'd get behind that. If people had the critical thinking skills and sat down and read through the Bible from end to end, perhaps an annotated one, maybe there would be fewer Christians running around talking about how their belief is perfect and not full of evil things (while often being self-contradictory).

Neat link. I didn't know there was such a thing out there. I do have qualms though with the skeptics handbook because it basically does exaclty what confuses people. It takes OT scripture and lays it down next to NT scripture in a seemingly contradictory manner. When you do that you lose the entire context of what happened in between, and why things changed in the NT that override many of the teachings of the OT.

Read the whole book and suddenly those contradictions go away.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Not only does the Bible not mention slavery being immoral, it openly condones it in multiple places. Including the New Testament.

1st Peter 2:18
Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

The belief that the Old Testament no longer applies is blatantly false. Jesus Christ himself says the Old Testament is still in effect.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
 
Last edited:

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
The belief that the Old Testament no longer applies is blatantly false. Jesus Christ himself says the Old Testament is still in effect.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)


Right, the law is still in effect. Further in Matthew he expounds upon these things by re-iterating that people should not murder, adulter, steal, etc. Homosexuality is still taboo in the NT as it was in the OT. Tithing is still required in the NT just as it has been throughout the OT. Idol worship is still against the law. The law hasn't changed.

The difference is that in the OT a sacrifice was required if the law was broken. The NT clearly states that Christ paid our sacrifice in full, so now the punishment for breaking the law will be dealt with on Judgement day, not while we're on the earth. So in the OT the law is still in effect, but it is each person who is responsible for his own soul, and it is through repentance that we can be forgiven.

Things that DID change in the NT (such as not requiring Gentile converts to be circumsized) are greatly because the Gentiles were never under the Jewish law. Other things (Such as healing a person on the Sabbath, or allowing people to eat "clean or unclean foods") were by direct command of Jesus as he simply expanded upon the original intent of the law (Mark 7)
 
Last edited:

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
Not only does the Bible not mention slavery being immoral, it openly condones it in multiple places. Including the New Testament.
1st Peter 2:18
Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.(Matthew 5:17 NAB)

This passage is not ordering the Jews to go out and enslave other people or other races. It is the apostle preaching to the apostles that they should obey the authorities that God has placed over them, as well as remember that they are servants of Christ first and foremost. Check out the whole chapter:

Obey Your Rulers and Masters
13 Follow the lead of every human authority. Do it because the Lord wants you to. Obey the king. He is the highest authority. 14 Obey the governors. The king sends them to punish those who do wrong. He also sends them to praise those who do right. 15 By doing good you will put a stop to the talk of foolish people. They don't know what they are saying. God wants you to stop them.
16 Live like free people. But don't use your freedom to cover up evil. Live like people who serve God. 17 Show proper respect to everyone. Love the community of believers. Have respect for God. Honor the king.

18 Slaves, obey your masters with all the respect you should give them. Obey not only those who are good and kind. Obey also those who are not kind. 19 Suppose a person suffers pain unfairly because he wants to obey God. That is worthy of praise. 20 But suppose you receive a beating for doing wrong, and you put up with it. Will anyone honor you for that? Of course not. But suppose you suffer for doing good, and you put up with it. God will praise you for that


CONTEXT MATTERS!!!
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
Neat link. I didn't know there was such a thing out there. I do have qualms though with the skeptics handbook because it basically does exaclty what confuses people. It takes OT scripture and lays it down next to NT scripture in a seemingly contradictory manner. When you do that you lose the entire context of what happened in between, and why things changed in the NT that override many of the teachings of the OT.

Read the whole book and suddenly those contradictions go away.

Seemingly contradictory? It also lays OT vs OT and NT vs. NT and the same issues occur. You can try to rationalize away the internal contradictions, but it doesn't make them go away.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Hell, I'd get behind that. If people had the critical thinking skills and sat down and read through the Bible from end to end, perhaps an annotated one, maybe there would be fewer Christians running around talking about how their belief is perfect and not full of evil things (while often being self-contradictory).

Hmmm... who gets to decide what's evil???
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Wow!!! Lots of GREAT discussion... thoughts and ideas flying all over the place. We've got some VERY intelligent members here at OCDO... makes me proud :)

...back to the OP... this guy has decided to use his business to make a political statement. I can understand where he's coming from. It seems with all the politically correct "crap" forced down people's throats through the different media outlets and large corporations, sometimes it can cause frustrated individuals to fight back in anyway they can. I wonder if this a predicted response?

In any case, it all goes back to getting the federal government out of the state's business. It's bad enough that we have to work to hard very to keep our state governments concentrated on protecting our liberties, but keeping the fed off our back has become almost impossible.
 
Last edited:

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
Thanks for the support.



I've noticed the same. That's why I always attempt to put the real message out there. Hopefully it will educate foks (both Christian and non-Christian) what the Bible is really all about. There are a LOT of strange ideas floating around these days about what Christians are all about. Not enough people crack the good book open and just read it IMHO.

This is very true. The same thing could,however, be said about Muslims. Many wish to demonize both for their beliefs without really learning what they believe. Not all Christians think Homosexuals deserve death(as Westboro does) and not every Muslim believe there are 72 virgins for martyrs. Both religions have had their core beliefs morphed by individuals who wish you use their own interpretations.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
Seemingly contradictory? It also lays OT vs OT and NT vs. NT and the same issues occur. You can try to rationalize away the internal contradictions, but it doesn't make them go away.

Well Tawnos, ol' buddy, I really don't know what to tell you. I'm absolutely sure that the website can take OT vs OT and NT vs NT just the same as it did with OT vs OT, and again the only thing I can tell you is that the context of passages is SO important to what they mean. Taking a single passage from one place, and comparing it to a single passage in another where the topics are completely different makes it very easy to give the impression of contradictory instructions. Again, if you read from beginning to end you get the full scope of what is happening and what is being discussed.

If you're really interested, start looking at some of those contradictory passages, pull out the Bible, and then read the entire chapter instead of just looking at those single verses. It takes a lot of reading, but eventually (in my experience) those things that look a certain way when pulled out of context suddenly make a lot more sense when plugged into the bigger picture of what is happening. The overall message remains pretty static all the way through, although some nuances do occur.

And yes, there are some facts that are contradictory in the Bible. As stated, anytime humans get introduced into the picture things get mucked up. Here's three freebees for you.
-The names of the original 12 apostles change depending on which book you read (Luke, John, Mat, Mark, etc)
-Many of the stories appear more than once in the Bible, with Apostles giving slightly different accounts of what was said (although the end message is always the same)
-In the Old Testament, Goliath's size in the modern Bible is several inches taller than it is in the oldest known written version of the story. (He's still a giant, but is basically larger than a modern day basketball player, not a Jack in the Beanstalk type creature)

I've spent a lot of time sorting through the 'contradictions' in the Bible, and have spent hours reading over histories of the ancient world, and probing articles on the subject. I still find things that are new, or interesting or exciting.

If you really want to explore the system of Christian beliefs then grab a book and go for it.

As for the difference between Christianity and the Westboro Baptist Church, I think I've already answered that, and the answer is still the same. Westboro preaches God's hate, while most Christian faiths are based upon God's love and salvation.
 
Last edited:

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
...back to the OP... this guy has decided to use his business to make a political statement. (SNIP) I wonder if this a predicted response?

Could be that he knew it would be controversial- and therefore widely broadcasted- so he tossed it in there to get his commercial broadcasted nationwide and all over the interweb.

Just a thought.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
I will not tell this man he can't say what has been said. In fact, just like Wesboro Baptist church, I might disagree, but I will never tell them they can't do what they do. I will defend the right this man has exercised till death.

Yes, I will defend Westboro's right to protest, but, I will also defend groups like Patriot Guard Riders who choose to place themselves(and their bikes) between Westbrook and the funerals. It is one of the strengths of this country that even fools(Westboro and this man) have rights, but so do those who disagree with them.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
Yes, I will defend Westboro's right to protest, but, I will also defend groups like Patriot Guard Riders who choose to place themselves(and their bikes) between Westbrook and the funerals. It is one of the strengths of this country that even fools(Westboro and this man) have rights, but so do those who disagree with them.

+1
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Could be that he knew it would be controversial- and therefore widely broadcasted- so he tossed it in there to get his commercial broadcasted nationwide and all over the interweb.

Just a thought.

I appreciate the thought... but what I was insinuating was... is the antagonizing "on purpose"? In other words, is this guy getting angry because he's having trouble dealing with random developments in society, OR might these "developments" be orchestrated?
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I appreciate the thought... but what I was insinuating was... is the antagonizing "on purpose"? In other words, is this guy getting angry because he's having trouble dealing with random developments in society, OR might these "developments" be orchestrated?

Does it matter?
 
Top