City of Washington OC ban

[usmcbess]

You are exactly right. However, when you are the member of a political group, and a part of a movement that can still be restricted, doing unpopular things can still be considered pretty stupid. Seriously, playing "CopBlock" WHILE OCing, then saying he never intended to give the movement a bad name? Get the **** out. Legal or not we can't support doofs like this guy. KC side doesn't put up with fools like this, if we find guys like this in the group we actively black ball them from OC meets and avoid affiliation, maybe that's why we have a better track record.

I dont copblock while OCing. I did one time but decided it wasnt the best idea.

 

[usmcbess]

Sorry, but I've got USMCBess' back on this one. It's a shame that one legal action on the part of one law abiding citizen is enough to shatter the long laid plans that took many people many hours to......OH WAIT! Nothing has happened yet.

What POWER you must have, Vincent! We constantly hear about the tons of superhuman effort and thankless hours upon hours of work many put in unknown on our behalf.....and all it takes is one legal act by one law abiding citizen to shatter it all?

What a fragile thing! It's like a house of cards! If it tumbles at the slightest breeze........

SHHHHHH! Secret Squirrel says......SHHHHH! Top Secret! We don't want to release any information. SHHHHHHH!


be vewy, vewy, quiet...........

...and then: WHAT? YOU WERE SEEN DOING SOMETHING PERFECTLY LEGAL!?! HOW COULD YOU! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO KNOW!



How was he supposed to know about something so TOP F*$#^ING SECRET? Clairvoiance?

mspgunner or LMTD:

THIS is the PERFECT example to stick in all your "friends" faces! THIS IS THE REASON for the bill! THIS is what we need to show these "friends" in high places!

NOW is the opportunity to take these "friends" and stick their noses in the dog turd. WAVE IT IN THEIR FACES! Say:

"HEY, MR. CONGRESSCRITTER! LOOK AT THIS STUPID S#!T! THIS is why we need this F@#%ING bill!"

Don't let them B.S. you and smile in your face while ******* down your back by saying, "Oh! How unfortunate for you! Now we can't pass this bill!"...BULLS#!T! THIS is the reason for it. The crooked S.O.B.'s are looking for any excuse to back out of something their constituents want, and they're attempting to use this as a branch to sweep the trail of their backpedalling footprints away.

"Look! I was TRYING to pass this bill since I care for you so much, but now......ooops! Looks like I can't!"

BULLS#!T. This is simply something they are trying to use as a smokescreen to cover their running away.

Stick their nose in the turd and make them own it! Ask them, msp. Ask them LMTD: "Why doesn't Missouri have full pre-emption like the majority of other states to protect it's citizens from this B.S.?" I thought politicians wanted more power? I thought legislators looked forward to being the deciding factor, I thought state level politicians wanted to control the issues?.....

....and now they try to pawn it off by using this incident to relinquish control to local authorities? BULLS#!T!
THIS is an example, SMACKING THEM IN THE FACE, of why we need full pre-emption.

Ask them: "WHY DON'T WE HAVE FULL PRE-EMPTION TO PROTECT US FROM THIS B.S.?" THIS is the reason for the politicos to HURRY UP AND PASS IT! Don't let them muddle the issue and redefine it as an excuse to run away from it! WE need to use it to hold their noses to the grindstone. Don't give it to them for THEM to use in order to run away like cowards.

Thanks for the support. It is much appreciated.

 

[usmcbess]

Did you even read this thread?
Seriously this post is a tad bit retarded.

Also, if you have his back, then you should be black balled right along with him. Confrontational cop baiters should be shunned.

Your mantra that I am a cop baiter is just that a mantra. You can say it all you want but it does not make it true. I am the only one who can define my intentions and I have stated them many times in this thread and I will again. I do not seek confrontation with police. I cannot control when they stop me for OC. When they stop me I video record for the sake of police accountability and transparency of government.

 

[usmcbess]

This right before,



Man, thanks for the good PR Bess *sarcasm x10*

Thankfully the OC ban failed, but come on. If this is the kind of s**** I am going to be affiliated with by OCing I'm almost embarrassed to do so.

I cant help the fact that the paper reports inaccurate and/or irrelevant information. I do not follow the police. If I see them and I have time to stop and film I do.

 

[usmcbess]

I'm just curious as to what other rights folks should be expected to "give up" for "the cause"? Should we tolerate illegal searches and seizures because some politician doesn't want us to appear to be confrontational or "anti-government" in the eyes of the press? Should we stop practicing our preferred religion for a few months so as not to come off as "religious radicals" while we wait for some bill to try to make it out of committee and onto the floor for debate? Maybe folks were giving up their right to assemble to try to help this bill make it out of committee, and that's why there was such a poor turnout at the gun rights rally this year?

Just so we all know, which one of you folks should be "the decider" for how the rest of us lawfully conduct ourselves from here on out? I sure wouldn't want to accidentally cast any stones towards your glass house...........

Exactly. Well said. My God comes first above all things. If I was given the choice to deny God or give open carry a "bad name" I would choose God every time.

 

[usmcbess]

Come on man, slippery slope logic. Lets keep arguments like that in Jr. High.

You know what this is. If you want to guarantee your rights, sometimes you have to play politics, and you especially should not make an ass out of yourself and everyone involved while being a visible representative of the group.

I have never claimed to represent the body of open carriers in Missouri. We are a diverse group of individuals with different likes, hobbies, religions etc.

 

[usmcbess]

I intended for it to sound "junior high-ish", because that is the tone of the majority of this thread. Like it or not, there are folks out there that do plenty of things in a manner that you and I might not agree with. However, as long as they are doing them in accordance with the law, it's really not any of our business.

But I digress, whether or not any of us agree with the manner that Mr. Bess conducted himself in this situation is entirely irrelevant. There isn't anyone here who gets to be the arbiter of conduct for everyone else. And I find it disturbing that supposed freedom-loving individuals would go to such great lengths to belittle a person for their LAWFUL conduct just because said person exercised said conduct in a manner in which they don't necessarily agree with. What the heck kind of freedom is that?

Folks who believe that open carry is a God given right, protected by our Constitution, should understand better than anyone that you can't "guarantee rights" by NOT exercising them. And they should also understand that sometimes the very act of exercising that right is, in and of itself, enough for the media (or some over-zealous LEO or town council member) to latch onto like a rabid dog and use to control the narrative in their attempt to make everyone involved in the activity out to be an "ass". NEWSFLASH - Not everyone who OC's is a member of this site, or is even aware of it. NEWSFLASH - Not everyone who chooses to OC is trying to be a "visible representative of the group", in fact, I'd guess that the majority of people who OC in this state have never given "the group" much thought one way or the other.

The amount of self-importance being displayed around here is borderline ridiculous.

Yes. Exactly. We are a decentralized group of individuals with no leader or code of conduct. It really is no one elses business someone lives there life. If someone put on here that a gay OCer would be bringing bad press to OC for engaging in a controversial lifestyle people would go ballistic.

 

[usmcbess]

I believe the point has been made fairly clear, but if not, I can help.

It is not MY, or any other party working for OC opinion of bess's actions that are important at all, it is the response of the politician that is important.

The politicians are the "decider" sir, not me, if I was the "decider" 680 would have been passed years ago and we would not be having this discussion.

When laying the groundwork for this years campaign somewhere around June of last year when meeting with the one of "deciders" they highly recommended that we have no incidents similar in nature to the one that happened with Brett Darrow.

I believe your response indicates power exist where none does. Giving feed back and asking someone to refrain from activities that are specifically unpopular in an area because of feedback is not power, it is simply doing what was recommended by the "deciders" and when that request is ignored and the feedback from the "deciders" it becomes what it is.

being asked specifically not to stir up the authorities in Washington until after the end of session, in contrast to what is being implied are different. Being asked not to do so because it will trigger an event is also not this power monger decider thing that is being implied, it is nothing more than good politics, don't bring intentional negative press.

As a free man he ignored those request, we got the negative press, the miseryian got their shot and they took it. The ban in Washington is/was never the point, the impact it had at the state capitol is the only one that counts and its impact was poor.

I was never asked not stir things up in Washigton. I was asked to behave. Once again ,revisiting this term, if by behave Marc meant dont OC that is out of the question. I was not doing anything different that day in Washington. It was just the luck of the draw.

 

[usmcbess]

Based on current law, the cops do not have to take the bait, yet they do.

Vilifying the lawfully acting citizen when the cops initiate the contact is illogical. The cops could have just kept on about their business, if they know the law, and nothing would have occurred. It seems that the local cops know and have known about these two for quite some time and yet they periodically take the 'bait'.

Another case of 'blame' the citizen for the actions of the state.

There was no bait given! Like I have pointed out this guy, and others, are trying to dictate my intentions. I dont know what they think I am doing to bait the cops. If walking down the street OC is baiting the cops then everyone who OC's is a "copbaiter".

 

[WCrawford]

If walking down the street OC is baiting the cops then everyone who OC's is a "copbaiter".

That is exactly what the statists, like ChiangShih, would have anyone believe when there is negative press.

 

[LMTD]

that is exactly what the statists, like chiangshih, would have anyone believe when there is negative press.

lol

 

[9026543]

There was no bait given! Like I have pointed out this guy, and others, are trying to dictate my intentions. I dont know what they think I am doing to bait the cops. If walking down the street OC is baiting the cops then everyone who OC's is a "copbaiter".

I don't quite understand the ones that yelled copbaiter the loudest as they blame 1 person OC as being a copbaiter but then again the very same ones that screamed copbaiter the loudest organize and take part in group OC events at places like Starbucks and various eating establishments. Could this not be considered as cop baiting?

 

[OC for ME]

<snip> Could this not be considered as cop baiting?

....uh, that's different.

usmcbess: Yes you did bait the cops, and the cops took the bait, illegally. The difference is that your intentions are irrelevant, in fact, the facts are irrelevant. The result is all that some folks are concerned with.

Yeah, yeah, you were legal and all, but that is besides the point, you refused to behave.

 

[9026543]

....uh, that's different.

usmcbess: Yes you did bait the cops, and the cops took the bait, illegally. The difference is that your intentions are irrelevant, in fact, the facts are irrelevant. The result is all that some folks are concerned with.

Yeah, yeah, you were legal and all, but that is besides the point, you refused to behave.

How is it different? I am a little dense at times but fail to see the difference myself.

 

[LMTD]

I don't quite understand the ones that yelled copbaiter the loudest as they blame 1 person OC as being a copbaiter but then again the very same ones that screamed copbaiter the loudest organize and take part in group OC events at places like Starbucks and various eating establishments. Could this not be considered as cop baiting?

opinions vary. Most would say there is a significant difference from a meet and actively looking for police and stopping there just because the police are there, but as i said opinions vary.

 

[OC for ME]

LMTD is correct, opinions vary. What is not a variable is that some cops don't like OC. The bait is a visible firearm. We all should know that some cops don't like that.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_72e2cf1c-cc11-11df-9688-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=35497

Therefore our exercising our right is baiting the cops regardless of our intentions. Some cops take the bait, the ones that don't know the law or disagree with the law. And most other cops do not take the bait because they know the law regardless of their opinion of OC.

A low profile from time to time is good, like a vacation from work is good. Some folks don't take vacations and some folks can't maintain a low profile.

 

[Thomas Masse]

I have never claimed to represent the body of open carriers in Missouri. We are a diverse group of individuals with different likes, hobbies, religions etc.

It doesn't matter if you "claim" to represent them. EVERY time you strap a gun onto your hip and go outside, you represent all OCers to everyone you meet and pass by. And here's the thing, if you walk around baiting cops and being generally aggro to everyone you meet about your "rights" you can't be surprised with they have bad opinions about open carrying. You're hindering rather than helping. Please stop open carrying before you make it worse for the rest of us.

 

[ChiangShih]

That is exactly what the statists, like ChiangShih, would have anyone believe when there is negative press.

Are you kidding me? You've got to be a troll at this point. How you over simplify and generalize context and entire issues must be an indicator of how simple minded you are. I am specifically labeling Bess as a cop baiter because of his -documented- action. He seeks out police officers and engages in behavior that is non-normative to daily routine in order to draw the attention of said police. If he was going about it normal business when -this- particular incident happened, then yes shame on the cop. However, I would still hold issue as Bess was directly asked to avoid OC in this particular town for 30 days. The fact that he didn't, the fact that negative press came from it, the fact that Bess has a history of facilitating confrontation with LEOS and creating bad PR, all culminates to my position on this matter.

I am starting to think, Bess like many others in this community have some sort of social deficiency. I feel a lot of the guys in the OC movement use the gun to exhibit or challenge authority. This exhibition of authority isn't used against criminals as a means of deterrence, but more often as a way to exhibit authority over the general populace. OCers like this get off on the looks and whispers they get and the feeling of power or recognition (or even mistaken authority) they get from it. This undoubtedly some sort of mental mechanism used to supplement a lack of self confidence, lack of authority, or overall beta-male existence. IMO its pretty f***ing pathetic. Know what else? I think every one of you tools who don't see that is probably some neck-beard beta-male loser too.

 

[Thomas Masse]

I am starting to think, Bess like many others in this community have some sort of social deficiency. I feel a lot of the guys in the OC movement use the gun to exhibit or challenge authority. This exhibition of authority isn't used against criminals as a means of deterrence, but more often as a way to exhibit authority over the general populace. OCers like this get off on the looks and whispers they get and the feeling of power or recognition (or even mistaken authority) they get from it. This undoubtedly some sort of mental mechanism used to supplement a lack of self confidence, lack of authority, or overall beta-male existence. IMO its pretty f***ing pathetic. Know what else? I think every one of you tools who don't see that is probably some neck-beard beta-male loser too.

THANK GOD! Someone finally said it. Thank you ChiangShih. +1000

 

[sohighlyunlikely]

Are you kidding me? You've got to be a troll at this point. How you over simplify and generalize context and entire issues must be an indicator of how simple minded you are. I am specifically labeling Bess as a cop baiter because of his -documented- action. He seeks out police officers and engages in behavior that is non-normative to daily routine in order to draw the attention of said police. If he was going about it normal business when -this- particular incident happened, then yes shame on the cop. However, I would still hold issue as Bess was directly asked to avoid OC in this particular town for 30 days. The fact that he didn't, the fact that negative press came from it, the fact that Bess has a history of facilitating confrontation with LEOS and creating bad PR, all culminates to my position on this matter.

I am starting to think, Bess like many others in this community have some sort of social deficiency. I feel a lot of the guys in the OC movement use the gun to exhibit or challenge authority. This exhibition of authority isn't used against criminals as a means of deterrence, but more often as a way to exhibit authority over the general populace. OCers like this get off on the looks and whispers they get and the feeling of power or recognition (or even mistaken authority) they get from it. This undoubtedly some sort of mental mechanism used to supplement a lack of self confidence, lack of authority, or overall beta-male existence. IMO its pretty f***ing pathetic. Know what else? I think every one of you tools who don't see that is probably some neck-beard beta-male loser too.

Why is it that you OC? Are you wanting to restrict or condemn those OCing for any different reason than yours? This moral justification for OCing is a slippery slope you have put yourself on. I personally don't care if some does it to pick up chicks or they like the to look like a cowboy. It is a person freedom that I have no right to ask it be restricted from others.

Doc

Doc