Why are advocates for OC disliked so much?

[Medic1210]

Oh ya it is a risk, but again I would like to point out that everything has risks. And this means that we now have all of one verifiable incident of an OCer being targeted for his gun (and I've heard of less than 5 total crimes against OCers where the perp didn't notice the gun before targeting them). Now compare this to the risk of a CCer being targeted for a crime because of how they look like other victims. I don't have hard stats on it, but one can simply look in various gun magazines for plenty of cases of CCers being targeted for crime.

Life is all about weighing risks vs benefits and type of carry is no different. Both have their risks and benefits.

I have no argument for you. I agree with everything you said. It's just one of those things we need to admit is a possibility. Denying or ignoring it is no different than the anti-gunners denying and ignoring the many cases of guns saving lives simply because it goes against the point they're trying to make. As open carriers, we have to be honest with ourselves that a visible gun is easier to be targeted than a gun that is concealed. Fortunately, this seems to be the exception and not the rule. Doesn't mean it's not a risk, even if small. Just like there are risks with CC. I have my CHP, and conceal whenever it's more beneficial for me to not have a firearm visible, but I still prefer to OC whenever possible.

 

[MKEgal]

I like their argument that we do it for attention. That's all I ever hear.

There's always the "poorly-endowed" argument. Being a fairly well-endowed woman, I always laugh at that.
And how about the "uneducated" argument? Having several degrees, I laugh at that one too.
I will reluctantly admit to occasionally being a redneck, when I forget my sunblock.

let's say you are in a conveince [sic] store and a perp comes in with the intent to rob the place and see's [sic] you with your gun on your hip, the first thing he is going to do is disarm you or shoot you before you have time to draw your weapon.

:cuss: :banghead: For once, I agree with Doug - not this again!

There have only been a handful of reports of any OC-er being disarmed and one of them is questionable.

I've started collecting news reports of these extremely rare events... and they are rare, otherwise they wouldn't make the news.

- I know of one case (here in Milwaukee) where an OCer was robbed of his pistol at gunpoint.
- I've read of one where someone walking down the street was attacked, his gun grabbed, & a passer-by helped get it back before the criminal ran off. (I think this was near Cleveland, OH, but not sure.)
- I've read of one where a criminal [feral teen with a record], upon entering a stop-n-rob to rob the store, saw someone OC & shot him. (I think this was in Michigan.)
- I've read of one where a big-box greeter tried to grab someone's pistol as he entered the store, & the greeter ended up in surgery later that day. (No news reports; can't confirm truth.)

Compared to the perhaps hundreds of thousands who carry openly every day, that's statistically zero.

As for me Concealed Carrying and being viewed as an easy target, that's OK with me. I don't want to postpone a criminal from doing what he already has planned and just causing him to wait until I've left, coming back later or going somewhere else to commit his crime because he saw my gun. It is better to get it over with while there is someone there that has an opportunity to stop a criminal act. They need to be apprehended or stopped before they have a chance to terrorize, hurt or kill someone.

I don't carry in order to play police officer & clean up society's mess.
I carry to be able to go home to my own bed, alive.
I hope I NEVER have to harm anyone, but I will to preserve my own life, or that of a family member, or any child.

An adult who is not related to me who is in apparent danger, I will consider the situation before responding.
I will at least call police, probably shout at the attacker (the cockroaches don't like witnesses), and possibly approach if I can do so without risking myself.
If I'm positive that the apparent victim is the real victim & would be entitled to act in self-defense (and really does now want to be able to defend herself) I might bring the pistol into the situation.

Most every other adult has the same choices I usually do* w/r/t self-defense:
do I protect myself, & if so, what's the best way for me?
Who am I to override someone's decision, made from knowledge of their own beliefs & morals, about their own protection or lack thereof? How very arrogant that would be!

*[At the moment, I'm not allowed to protect myself except at home, but that should be taken care of soon.]

 

[Aknazer]

I have no argument for you. I agree with everything you said. It's just one of those things we need to admit is a possibility. Denying or ignoring it is no different than the anti-gunners denying and ignoring the many cases of guns saving lives simply because it goes against the point they're trying to make. As open carriers, we have to be honest with ourselves that a visible gun is easier to be targeted than a gun that is concealed. Fortunately, this seems to be the exception and not the rule. Doesn't mean it's not a risk, even if small. Just like there are risks with CC. I have my CHP, and conceal whenever it's more beneficial for me to not have a firearm visible, but I still prefer to OC whenever possible.

Sorry if I came across as trying to argue with you, that wasn't my intention. I was simply trying to show that while there is a risk of being targeted for a gun grab, the CCers put too much emphasis on it given the stats of how often it happens, and at the same time they like to ignore the risks and stats of CCers being targeted for crime. I would say that my posts weren't 100% directed at you, but they were some of the better ones to use to highlight some of the fallacies that CCers use to justify why OCing is a bad idea.

And I agree that OCers have to admit there is a possibility of being targeted for crime. To think that OCing makes one immune to crime is just stupid. And some of the other potential issues of OCing is the potential for increased scrutiny from law enforcement, and not everyone can handle that.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I have been OCing for over 5 years now. I live near Lansing, MI. Our state capitol. I've never been hassled by the police, and I've never been targeted by the "bad guys." I have noticed some people change direction away from me, once in a while. But, no attempt to take me out.

The key for anyone who carries for self defense, is situational awareness. If you are aware of those around you, your chance of beig surprised, is greatly reduced.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OC for ME]

SA works even when you ain't carrying.

 

[Big Gay Al]

SA works even when you ain't carrying.

SA is something everyone should practice. Problem is, most of the sheeple prefer the "put your head down and don't look around, maybe you won't attract the wolves" sort of mentality.

 

[Dreamer]

IThey use excuses like, "I will catch them by surprise. I am not a target to a criminal. Its more tactically sound."

And this i where the "CC Tactical Advantage argument" falls on it's face. Because, to a criminal, a CCer looks like ALL the other disarmed sheeple who are incapable of presenting a danger to their predation.

 

[Marco]

And this i where the "CC Tactical Advantage argument" falls on it's face. Because, to a criminal, a CCer looks like ALL the other disarmed sheeple who are incapable of presenting a danger to their predation.

Ding Ding we have a winner.....
emphasis mine.

 

[gunns]

Cant read all of these there are too many. But I will say this, you OC people are crazy.

Who in their right mind would carry a weapon and show it to all who would see it? Imagine the horror to many who see the gun, the sleepless nights, the nightmares of gun toting bible thumping mid-westerners? By what right do you openly carry a firearm?

Oh wait a minute, I am on the wrong internet site, I thought this was MSNBC.

Sorry.

You OC people are cool.

 

[OC for ME]

Confusing MSNBC and OCDO may get you into some hot water.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

Cant read all of these there are too many. [ ... ]

Amazing. I wonder for how many this is true, that they read the OP only, and none of the replies, before opining.

 

[porterhouse83]

Cant read all of these there are too many. But I will say this, you OC people are crazy.

Who in their right mind would carry a weapon and show it to all who would see it? Imagine the horror to many who see the gun, the sleepless nights, the nightmares of gun toting bible thumping mid-westerners? By what right do you openly carry a firearm?

Oh wait a minute, I am on the wrong internet site, I thought this was MSNBC.

Sorry.

You OC people are cool.

I dont care who you are thats funny! :lol:

 

[gunns]

I dont care who you are thats funny! :lol:

It was meant to be.

 

[Ironbar]

I sense bitterness in this post there for I'm disregarding it as a rational response.

Damn those 2A spouting people!

LOL! I love how you guys BOTH put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5!

 

[porterhouse83]

LOL! I love how you guys BOTH put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5!

I can only go by what I read. If you care to elaborate on your posts then by all means feel free to do so.

 

[WalkingWolf]

CC by permit is not exercising a 2A right, it is exercising a privilege. A right should never be subject to being treated as a privilege. Somebody had a saying about that a long time ago, something about sacrificing liberty for security deserves neither.

 

[Big Gay Al]

LOL! I love how you guys BOTH put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5!

I don't get it.

 

[USMC1986]

And I agree that OCers have to admit there is a possibility of being targeted for crime. To think that OCing makes one immune to crime is just stupid. And some of the other potential issues of OCing is the potential for increased scrutiny from law enforcement, and not everyone can handle that.

I get the feeling that most believe they are in fact, immune... If you can't look at both sides of the argument for advocating CC or OC then something is wrong with you. The BG targeting OC'ers story might be overused and maybe with good reason. Just because there are very few reports of it actually occuring, doesn't mean it cannot happen. If I had intent to harm and rob, I would put a drop on the one who open carries first... Does it happen, hardly at all. Can it? Yes. It doesn't go beyond that and that's what I think a few people were trying to get across in previous posts on this thread. The real question is would anyone become a victim to a violent crime at all in their lives? Most likely not...

 

[Tawnos]

I haven't had the chance to read the rest of the thread, but last night I had the opportunity to speak with two kind ladies who are both concealed carriers, though not the typically-thought-of-as-gun-owner sorts. While I disagreed with their ultimate point, I understood from where it was derived. The short of it is that open carriers are associated with people in political movements who have historically advocated, directly or indirectly, a willingness to use violence as a means to resolution of their personal viewpoint's dispute. E.g. tea party folks expressing a desire, real or exaggerated, to "provide fertilizer to the tree of liberty".

While I hope to get another chance to speak with these women, I can understand where they are coming from. I think they're wrong, but I "get it" - they see people who are willing to express violent and destructive thoughts towards them merely based on a difference in political ideology, and associate it with the percentage of openly perceived pistol presence permeating the group.

 

[Aknazer]

I get the feeling that most believe they are in fact, immune... If you can't look at both sides of the argument for advocating CC or OC then something is wrong with you. The BG targeting OC'ers story might be overused and maybe with good reason. Just because there are very few reports of it actually occuring, doesn't mean it cannot happen. If I had intent to harm and rob, I would put a drop on the one who open carries first... Does it happen, hardly at all. Can it? Yes. It doesn't go beyond that and that's what I think a few people were trying to get across in previous posts on this thread. The real question is would anyone become a victim to a violent crime at all in their lives? Most likely not...

I think the bolded part is part of the problem when most people try to come up with a counter arguement, and it loops right back into your second sentence. If I was going to commit a crime it would be well thought out, but I'm not a criminal. Most actual criminals don't put a whole lot of thought into their actions. And even when they do they are typically concerned with self preservation.

Instead people tend to project what they think THEY would do in such a situation onto others rather than trying to look at it from the other person's POV. Which leads to people pushing something to the exclusion of the facts/reality. Whether its the "blood in the streets" (antis who don't trust theirself/others with weapons), "OCing makes me immune to crime" (I personally haven't seen people claim this, but was accused of it on another board before being banned for using facts/logic), or the "OCers will be targeted first" (used by people who think from their POV and not from the POV of the criminal), the whole projection of one's views is a rather large problem that is everywhere.

And I would be careful with that "real question" remark as following that logic one could easily take it to the point of "well you shouldn't have a gun because chances are you won't become a victim of violent crime and thus don't need it." It's a cycle of: you are less likely to need it because you and others have it which helps to keep criminals at bay, but once you don't have it the criminals are braver and thus you are more likely to need it. Just look at the before/after crime rates for multiple places that have banned weapons.