1911 research

[Dreamer]

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Kimber and Para both make factory-new guns that have "carry melt" treatments, although I think the Kimbers are the melty-est. (is that even a word?)

Novak and Ed Brown both offer their version of such deburred, dehorned carry pistols as well, using either brand-new factory-fresh guns, or your pre-supplied pistol.

I know that my Para was pretty pointy in places from the factory. The grip safety, manual safety, and slide stop were all replaced with Ed Brown pieces, which come sort of smoothed over anyway. Novaks just did a light smoothing on my slide edges, but didn't do anything to the barrel bushing or the hammer (which was also an Ed Brown).

I wish I would have had them get a little more aggressive on the slide though. Soem folks don't like the look of the Kimber CDP's carry smoothing. I've heard it describes as "a chocolate bar left out in the sun", but frankly, I think it looks VERY unique and is artfully done. I think the next one I have worked on by Novak (hopefully a Para 7.45, 3.5" barrel LDA) will get a pretty aggressive carry smoothing if they will do it...

 

[Theboomanchu]

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I will add one point I didn't see in this thread. That is after sale product support. I don't know about other companies, but after I bought my Kimber "Stainless Target" "used as new", I had problems with it feeding HP's from thefactory mag.

I contacted the custom shop to inquire about sending it in to have it fine tuned. After giving him the S/N he said the gun was made in 2001 (this was in 2007) and told me to hold off sending it in, as he was going to send me a new mag and a main spring. He refused to take my CC and sent both of these at NO CHARGE for a USED GUN. I installed the spring and have been using the mag without a single misfeed for 2 years.

All I can say is that a company that stands behind their product like that has earned all my future business!

And NO, I don't work for Kimber or any company that sells their products.

 

[.40 Cal]

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Springfield customer service is outstanding... if you ever need to use it. As far as the pistol, well, you get what you pay for. Mind you I own aSpringfield mil-spec, but I knew what I was getting from the beginning. I suggest you dive into www.1911forum.com and read up. Yes, most 1911 manufacturers offer a dehorned and better tuned 1911, but you will need to buy one at or greater than $1000. Learn to get used to the one you have (a beautiful specimen, btw) and decide what you really need.

 

[45acpForMe]

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.40 Cal wrote:

...Yes, most 1911 manufacturers offer a dehorned and better tuned 1911, but you will need to buy one at or greater than $1000. Learn to get used to the one you have (a beautiful specimen, btw) and decide what you really need.

I am reading all the suggestions and appreciate the great info people have been giving. As an update, I got some 8 round mags from Wilson Combat which extend the grip a bit. I cut my teeth on gunbroker.com with the Springfield and bid on some other auctions when I saw that the price was right. I lost the kimber stainless raptor II bid but won a Colt XSE O1070RG bid. I was surprised that I could get a Colt as cheap as I did. Here is a stock picture.

As you can see I like stainless. So now comparing the two 1911 I own, I like the brushed stainless finish of the Springfield better but the Colt has flush 8 round mags the exact same size as the Springfield 7 round mags. Go figure. When I shot the Colt for the first time I used the Colt, Wilson Compat and the Springfield magazines and all worked fine. I was thinking of simply ordering several colt magazines when I tried to shootthe Colt mags throught the Springfield. The colt magazines would not work in the Springfield!!! So much for 1911 interoperability. I was a little disappointed but the Wilson Combat mags do give me a bit more grip so I wasn't tootoo upset. I just hate having to keep track of which mags work in which gun.

The Colt is definitely better manufactured for a couple reasons. When disassembled you can look at the slide edges and there is uniformity. The Springfiled had some thicker and thinner parts (unintended by their random locations). The Colt also has a very short recoil spring guide rod which allows them to use a spring cap that I can simply push in to breakdown the gun rather than the hex wrench needed on the Springfield. I looked for some similar functioning set from what was suggested previously. The sharp edges of that Springfield piece that needs to be pushed in to slide the barrel bushing is too sharp. The Colt has some sharp edges too.

Both shot about the same but I did feel that the I was more accurate with the colt by a smidgen. So all in all I like both guns and plan on keeping each. I guess I could standardize on Wilson Combat mags but I like the Colt mags too. While my hands exceed the grip by a little, it is "just" a little so it isn't an issue.

My perfect gun would be a merge of these two and I still have my eye on the Kimber. After my Visa cools down a bit I may get a third 1911. The holster I got fits both 1911's so I can carry either and look MARVELOUS!

Editied to add: The rail wasn't a big plus in my decision, I just wanted 5" Barrel with 8+1 mag capacity and of course stainless. This one fit all those except the "brushed" stainless preference. Of course the price on this gun got my attention. Maybe others stating that they don't need a rail on a 1911 drove the price down. I won't complain.

 

[Grapeshot]

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Follow up on the earlier 1911 magazine postings.

Nobody makes a better or more reliable magazine than Trip Research with their Cobra II magazines: 7 rd, 8 rd and extended 10 rd. IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

BTW - when I owned two Kimbers that the manufacture could not/did not fix, neither Novak or Wilson would accept my Kimbers for repair. That said even more to me than my personal experiences did. Have to admit, I do not like mim parts much either.

Yata hey

 

[45acpForMe]

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Grapeshot wrote:

Follow up on the earlier 1911 magazine postings.

Nobody makes a better or more reliable magazine than Trip Research with their Cobra II magazines: 7 rd, 8 rd and extended 10 rd. IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

BTW - when I owned two Kimbers that the manufacture could not/did not fix, neither Novak or Wilson would accept my Kimbers for repair. That said even more to me than my personal experiences did. Have to admit, I do not like mim parts much either.

Yata hey

Thanks for the info, I looked at the magazine and it their 8-rounder looksvery similiar tothe wilson combat. What aspect do you think is better? Spring life, loading ease, insertion/retension, ease of cleaning? The only thing about the WC mags is there is a small area of the mag showing on the side between the plastic floor plate and the gun. I assumed this was needed for insertion (overplay) but the gun would look better without it in my opinion.

Another poster said they would never own a Kimber. I personally know a few people that love their Kimbers. I am guessing price and customer service may be the issues but are there any others? How was your gun broken? Are Kimbers the type of product you either love or hate? (kind of like Glock, but I am not comparing Kimbers to Glocks in any other way)

 

[Grapeshot]

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45acpForMe wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Follow up on the earlier 1911 magazine postings.

Nobody makes a better or more reliable magazine than Trip Research with their Cobra II magazines: 7 rd, 8 rd and extended 10 rd. IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

BTW - when I owned two Kimbers that the manufacture could not/did not fix, neither Novak or Wilson would accept my Kimbers for repair. That said even more to me than my personal experiences did. Have to admit, I do not like mim parts much either.

Yata hey

Thanks for the info, I looked at the magazine and it their 8-rounder looksvery similiar tothe wilson combat. What aspect do you think is better? Spring life, loading ease, insertion/retension, ease of cleaning? The only thing about the WC mags is there is a small area of the mag showing on the side between the plastic floor plate and the gun. I assumed this was needed for insertion (overplay) but the gun would look better without it in my opinion.

Another poster said they would never own a Kimber. I personally know a few people that love their Kimbers. I am guessing price and customer service may be the issues but are there any others? How was your gun broken? Are Kimbers the type of product you either love or hate? (kind of like Glock, but I am not comparing Kimbers to Glocks in any other way)

Cobra II mags are a work of art - you cannot see the weld line, feed lips are strong, follower is superb, spring is state-of-the-art.

Virgil Tripp had the premiere plating shop in this country. His mags and other accessories have proven so successful, he no longer does any plating work.

Kimbers - some love 'em, some hate 'em. Doesn't seem to be any in between.
They are all production line guns, labeled "custom shop," they use a lot of MIM parts - nothing wrong with that though I don't like them and think such does not qualify as solid custom gun.

Mine had tool marks on the feed ramp, very loose swing link, bad extractor - failure to feed, failure to eject/stove pipe, double feed, strange slide lock, and night sights that quit in 6 months.
I was told by Kimber that I must be limp wristing the gun :cuss:and they couldn't find anything to repair. Note: they replaced the swing link and thought I wouldn't notice it, I guess. Still had problems and sold 'em. Bought a TR Special Les Baer and have been a happy camper. Have several other 1911s including an S & W Performance Shop gun that looks as good as a Kimber and is much more reliable - shoots as accurately as the Baer too.

YMMV

Yata hey

 

[45acpForMe]

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Grapeshot wrote:

IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

They didn't seem that pricey to me. Granted the Wilson Combat were cheaper but $30 something for a magazine isn't that bad. When I ordered extra mags for my other guns they always seem to be $40 asa magic number.

 

[Dreamer]

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Grapeshot wrote:

Nobody makes a better or more reliable magazine than Trip Research with their Cobra II magazines: 7 rd, 8 rd and extended 10 rd. IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.

Apparently you haven't priced Para Ordnance hi-cap factory magazines lately...:shock:

$54 each (plus shipping) for a new 14.45 mag. Ouch...

This is part o the reason I'm looking at a Para single-stack right now. The mag prices are brutal, and the only 3rd party mags out there are, from my experience, not worth crap.

And speaking of customer service, I'll chime in with a great big YAHOO! for Para. They have been VERY helpful with any questions I've had, and have even given me a lot fo good advice on after-market parts.

Novaks doesn't "manufacture" firearms, but they are an outstanding custom shop, with impeccable customer support. I've spent many minutes on the phone with them answering questions about accessories, future work on my Para, and plans for future projects using other pistols. Friendly, polite, knowledgeable, and they love to "talk shop".

 

[Wangmuf]

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I'm not buying a 1911 until I can afford a Wilson Combat pistol. It's down to either the Elite Professional or the Bill Wilson Carry Pistol. Until then, my M&P will suffice as a daily carry gun, and afterward, the 1911 would be a range queen/dress carry pistol. I only intend to purchase one because I've always loved the look of a 1911. I wish I could have gotten my grandpa's Colt Gold Cup when he passed, but my uncle inherited his entire collection and wouldn't part with it. :X


If I could find one that I could afford that was modified for left-handed operation, I'd probably buy it and carry it daily.

 

[.40 Cal]

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45acpForMe wrote:

My perfect gun would be a merge of these two and I still have my eye on the Kimber. After my Visa cools down a bit I may get a third 1911. The holster I got fits both 1911's so I can carry either and look MARVELOUS!

Editied to add: The rail wasn't a big plus in my decision, I just wanted 5" Barrel with 8+1 mag capacity and of course stainless. This one fit all those except the "brushed" stainless preference. Of course the price on this gun got my attention. Maybe others stating that they don't need a rail on a 1911 drove the price down. I won't complain.

You now have two mass production guns, both of which will satisfy your need. There is absolutely nothing that you will get from a Kimber at this point that you don't already have in the pieces you own, except maybe future disappointment. If you are dead set on purchasing another 1911 at this point, I recommend you absolutely wait until it makes sense for you to take the step toward a Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat or a Night Hawk. Also, figure out what you want to accomplish with the pistol. Have a range 1911, a carry 1911 (commmander size should be your next consideration), and an all arounder (your Colt seems to be cut out for this).

On a side note, the short guide rod is a GI rod. It is the way a 1911 should be, as this is the way it was designed by JMB over 100 years ago.

 

[45acpForMe]

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Wangmuf wrote:

I'm not buying a 1911 until I can afford a Wilson Combat pistol. It's down to either the Elite Professional or the Bill Wilson Carry Pistol. Until then, my M&P will suffice as a daily carry gun, and afterward, the 1911 would be a range queen/dress carry pistol. I only intend to purchase one because I've always loved the look of a 1911. I wish I could have gotten my grandpa's Colt Gold Cup when he passed, but my uncle inherited his entire collection and wouldn't part with it. :X


If I could find one that I could afford that was modified for left-handed operation, I'd probably buy it and carry it daily.

PROLW-PR-45 Professional LW, Armor-Tuff, .45ACP 2,750.00

I'll be on my third 1911 by the time I spend that much. I guess everyone has their preferences. My thoughts are that I want quality but it is bad enough to scratch a $900 gun and would feel really really bad seeing scratches on a gun that cost that much.

 

[vtme_grad98]

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FYI, 8 round magazines are the exact same length as 7 roundmagazines. The difference between the two is not the exterior dimensions, but the design of the internals. I own a Springfield Operator, which came with two 7 round magazines. I replaced those with an assortment of 8 round magazines to determine which I prefered.

From Cheaperthandirt.com

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG271-36.html

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG282-36.html

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/55310-36.html

The first magazine is my favorite of the bunch. It's a few bucks more. But it's so much easier to feed ammo into it than the lower cost magazines. The nicer finish also makes it slide into the magazine well much more smoothly.

 

[ixtow]

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Another "what should I buy 1911" thread, so I must...

I <3 Taurus pt-1911-ar. But I hate Taurus otherwise. Tucker Silent Thunder fits beautifully, too.

 

[45acpForMe]

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ixtow wrote:

Another "what should I buy 1911" thread, so I must...

I <3 Taurus pt-1911-ar. But I hate Taurus otherwise. Tucker Silent Thunder fits beautifully, too.

Yes Taurus makes a decent 1911 with bells and whistles you would pay more for in another brand. Money was a concern because I didn't want to spend over $1k but I was able to stay well below that and get name-brand 1911 guns.

There are a couple other brands/models out there that look interesting but for me right now I have what I want with the Springfield and Colt.

My only issue with my 1911's is cleaning them. Breaking them down, cleaning each part, and putting them together is more work than I am used to. With my Sig's I may shoot 25 rounds through two guns and clean them both. With the 1911 I dread having to clean it.

 

[ixtow]

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I tend to be a bit AK-47 when I clean my guns.

Remove rubber/plastic.

Squirt with break cleaner, inside and out. Maybe even soak it in acetone for an hour ir two.

Dry.

Squirt/soak in suitable oil.

Prop up in corner on several layers of newspaper to drain for a few days.

Servicable.

 

[Damiansar-15]

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I had a Caspian Recon 1911 built with a match Nowlin ramped barrel, Novak night sights, S/A magwell, Ergo Grips, BUL trigger, and misc. Caspian parts. I did the Norwell's finish with an airbrush and it turned out very well. I had a custom belt holster made by Comp-tac, since I had a X200 surefire mounted to the rails. Even though this is kydex, it has not caused wear on the finish. Even though the finish is very tough, I think a well-fit kydex holster does wonders to sustain a finish on a pistol. This guns looks/shoots like a high-end brand gun at half the price. I have a pistol smith guild friend who built this for me and it shoots wonderfully...

I use this pistol when I go pig hunting as back-up for my .458 Socom AR-15. The AR is a RRA upper, Vortex flash suppressor, LaRue Tactical mount, Leupold 3x7x36 glass, LMT lower with 2 stage trigger, Sopmod stock, and ergo grip...

 

[45acpForMe]

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Dreamer wrote:

Apparently you haven't priced Para Ordnance hi-cap factory magazines lately...:shock:

$54 each (plus shipping) for a new 14.45 mag. Ouch...

This is part o the reason I'm looking at a Para single-stack right now. The mag prices are brutal, and the only 3rd party mags out there are, from my experience, not worth crap.

Fyi, I found 15 round Para (factory) mags at GunBroker.com for $30 each plus $4 shipping. There were 14 rounders available too for the same price.

I opened another thread about my (3rd 1911) Para Big Hawg. So I am thinking the Para 15+1 will be a daily carry gun while the Springfield and Colt will be a dress gun. (along with my stainless P220). Gotta love 15+1 in 45acp!!!!

Here is the link to the other thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum5/36394.html

 

[buster81]

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I found this article that goes into detail on why some 1911 magazines don't work in some guns.

http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/index.html

 

[TehGruu]

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Grapeshot wrote:

Follow up on the earlier 1911 magazine postings.

Nobody makes a better or more reliable magazine than Trip Research with their Cobra II magazines: 7 rd, 8 rd and extended 10 rd. IMHO they are superior to Wilson's - pricey though.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

BTW - when I owned two Kimbers that the manufacture could not/did not fix, neither Novak or Wilson would accept my Kimbers for repair. That said even more to me than my personal experiences did. Have to admit, I do not like mim parts much either.

Yata hey

Well, sir, I wanted to thank you for making my bank account a hundred bucks lighter. I ordered a 7 round flush fit and a couple of 8 rounders. Thanks again.



-Gruu