21 feet?

[Onnie]

Oh, I dont know how the rest of you guys train, but everytime I withdraw my firearm its with a step to the side. Its good practice. Your chances of survival in a shootout, possibly a knife attack, goes up with a simple step to the side, due to tunnel vision of the attacker.

I train just like the FAT guy in the video but I wear a belt!:dude:

 

[Grapeshot]

He use to be a regular contributor to one of the gun magazines I read ( I believe it was G&A), and saw it there many years ago, as to not posting a reference my memory is good so when it is important I post a link when not I expect you to do some of the work and look it up.......

But here are a few and not it's not in this list but use your search engine...http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/rkba/Cooper_Quotes.htm BTY there are 3 volumes in print of stuff that he said....

Citing is what we do when we make direct reference to something.

Here is another link to the Colonel's wisdom, 1993-2006 in 14 volumns:
http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

 

[Bikenut]

He use to be a regular contributor to one of the gun magazines I read ( I believe it was G&A), and saw it there many years ago, as to not posting a reference my memory is good so when it is important I post a link when not I expect you to do some of the work and look it up.......

But here are a few and not it's not in this list but use your search engine...http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/rkba/Cooper_Quotes.htm BTY there are 3 volumes in print of stuff that he said....

You expect other folks to do the leg work to prove something you said is true?:shocker:

 

[Sheldon]

You expect other folks to do the leg work to prove something you said is true?:shocker:

I expect others not to be lazy and look it up for their self if they think it is important enough to criticize.... In a court of law the burden of proof in on the accuser not the accuesed.....

 

[Badger Johnson]

Trying to anticipate fighting with a HG is difficult because there are few opportunities to try it IRL. It's extremely easy to get caught flat-footed.

Twenty-one feet is not a large distance. In two steps a BG can be at 12-15 feet. In two steps you can be at 30 feet. But you might have a small child you're defending standing next to you. I would probably shoot sooner in that situation. A jury would probably agree. So, it makes no sense for any law to make an arbitrary distance a rule - there would be too many 'conditions' to reasonably append.

Basically, if you shoot someone you are screwed (sometimes, even more so if you don't kill them). If you have a good lawyer and a lot of $$ you may come out of it in reasonable shape and still be living at home. For this reason, it makes sense to use non-lethal options, backed up by a HG for the gravest extremes.

So, rather than be calculating number of feet, one should be using their own feet and get in the car and leave. But, you can also use that time/distance to be accessing your non-lethal equipment.

Parenthetically, if you have your HG (revolver-no case ejection issues) in your jacket pocket (palmed) and can just pull the trigger, you lengthen the time you have to make decisions.

 

[Bikenut]

I expect others not to be lazy and look it up for their self if they think it is important enough to criticize.... In a court of law the burden of proof in on the accuser not the accuesed.....

I expect folks who make statements about something they think is important enough to make a statement about to be able to provide facts to back up their statements. Failure to do so causes me to suspect there are no facts to back up said statement. And I also expect those who make statements to not be so elitist as to expect others to do their homework for them.

Have a nice day.

 

[autosurgeon]

And Rule 5 comes into play as well!

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

Laws are not the only things that need to be CITEd! Quotes do as well esp. since so many are attributed to the wrong person on the web.

 

[Shadow Bear]

And Rule 5 comes into play as well!

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

Laws are not the only things that need to be CITEd! Quotes do as well esp. since so many are attributed to the wrong person on the web.

And a perfect example is give above! He shoots, he SCORES!

 

[Sheldon]

I expect folks who make statements about something they think is important enough to make a statement about to be able to provide facts to back up their statements. Failure to do so causes me to suspect there are no facts to back up said statement. And I also expect those who make statements to not be so elitist as to expect others to do their homework for them.

Have a nice day.

Cooper was a very heavily quoted and colorful individual, and as grapeshot pointed out here in this collection alone there are 14 volumes... Back in the old days when we had to bang two rocks together for long range communication we would refer to people that wanted things done for them as LA... now have a nice day, find it yourself and enjoy.. http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

 

[Bikenut]

Cooper was a very heavily quoted and colorful individual, and as grapeshot pointed out here in this collection alone there are 14 volumes... Back in the old days when we had to bang two rocks together for long range communication we would refer to people that wanted things done for them as LA... now have a nice day, find it yourself and enjoy.. http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

Wrong again. No amount of name calling will remove your responsibility to do the leg work to back up the things you say. You said it... you do the leg work.

And what part of YOU wanting others to do things for YOU makes THEM the LA's?

Those who are unwilling to cite and/or link to authority and expect other folks to do that for them end up with zero credibility.

And as far as I'm concerned you Sir........... just did.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sheldon]

Wrong again. No amount of name calling will remove your responsibility to do the leg work to back up the things you say. You said it... you do the leg work.

And what part of YOU wanting others to do things for YOU makes THEM the LA's?

Those who are unwilling to cite and/or link to authority and expect other folks to do that for them end up with zero credibility.

And as far as I'm concerned you Sir........... just did.

Have a nice day.

So here's the point I remember reading it, so I'm good with what I said... You seem to be the one wanting me to take my time to sort through the many volumes of his wisdom so I can give you a direct reference to one of his several thousand quotes...
This is not rule 5 no law is involved, not one is going to loose anything because I will not go out of the way to supply a link.
However if it is that important to you please feel free to spend the time and go look it up. N here is another one of his that I keep on my cell phone and no I will not post a link, but I pulled it from another one of his stories I read when I read it (just before he died)...."Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas"









celeritas

 

[stainless1911]

Why must you insist on being stubborn? I see no real reason that you have chosen to hold your ground here.

 

[Grapeshot]

Why must you insist on being stubborn? I see no real reason that you have chosen to hold your ground here.

Perhaps the answer lies somewhere between can't and won't - little difference. What was a small request, he has made a major issue. Unfortunate. I must remember this tactic the next time I am tired or in a hurry.

 

[nuc65]

The 21 ft rule came from Massad Ayoob and some time vs distance drills he did. I am unsure as to the cite as to what case he used it in, but I believe it was in a trial where he spoke on behalf of the defense.

 

[Bikenut]

So here's the point I remember reading it, so I'm good with what I said... You seem to be the one wanting me to take my time to sort through the many volumes of his wisdom so I can give you a direct reference to one of his several thousand quotes...
This is not rule 5 no law is involved, not one is going to loose anything because I will not go out of the way to supply a link.
However if it is that important to you please feel free to spend the time and go look it up. N here is another one of his that I keep on my cell phone and no I will not post a link, but I pulled it from another one of his stories I read when I read it (just before he died)...."Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas"









celeritas

You expect me to simply accept what you say just because you said it? And if I question what the great and wonderous you has said it is up to me to verify the truthfulness of what you say?

You have zero credibility with me.

Have a nice day Sir.

 

[Bikenut]

The 21 ft rule came from Massad Ayoob and some time vs distance drills he did. I am unsure as to the cite as to what case he used it in, but I believe it was in a trial where he spoke on behalf of the defense.

The figure of 21 feet was arrived at by a man named Tueller who figured out that a bad guy could cover 21 feet in the amount of time it takes for the victim to respond. In short .. by the time the victim responded in some fashion the bad guy could already be in the victim's face and doing damage to the victim.

Please read the information from Mr. Tueller himself at:

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm

and please note that Mr. Tueller is basing his findings on the distance and reaction time of drawing from an openly carried sidearm.

 

[Bronson]

and please note that Mr. Tueller is basing his findings on the distance and reaction time of drawing from an openly carried sidearm.

And the defender knows the attacker is going to attack him.

I've tried the Tueller drill with rubber knives and guns and even a fat out of shape person who has a knife out can cover 21 feet in the time it takes to draw, present, and "fire" a gun. The best we were consistently able to do, if the defender didn't take any steps, was to draw and get one "shot" off from the hip at the same time the attacker landed his first blow.

One or two steps to the side or in an arc makes a world of difference.

Bronson

 

[Sheldon]

You expect me to simply accept what you say just because you said it? And if I question what the great and wonderous you has said it is up to me to verify the truthfulness of what you say?

You have zero credibility with me.

Have a nice day Sir.

So you had your teacher do your home work, you learn more and appreciate it greater when you must do your own work, so my friend Dittos, N for the curious it's won't.....

 

[Bikenut]

So you had your teacher do your home work, you learn more and appreciate it greater when you must do your own work, so my friend Dittos, N for the curious it's won't.....

You appoint yourself as teacher and justify that with the excuse that my doing the work to prove what you say is true will make me appreciate your great wisdom more?

Where is that "puke" emoticon when it's needed?

 

[Grapeshot]

Have corrected a teacher/instructor on more than one occasion. If I am not right however, I do not compound my error by trying to defend it. Doing so just deepens the pile around one's feet.