mastiff69
Regular Member
imported post
WHEW glad i don't smoke:uhoh:
WHEW glad i don't smoke:uhoh:
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A NC oc'ers first encounter with LEO
- Thread starter Glock 19
- Start date
FatboyCykes
Regular Member
imported post
Knowing and exercising our rights does not equate to disrespecting an officer of the law.
Glock19, you may consider what the quoted OP posted as catching more fly's with honey than with vinegar, but I don't think that one can equate such a euphemism with the practice of OC.
There are still a ridiculous number of LEO that either aren't familiar with legal/lawful OC of a firearm, or don't care that it's legal/lawful. We've seen several instances where LEO have ticketed, seized property and even arrested people that deserved none of the above. Reserving our 2nd, 4th and 5th amendment rights has been proven the best way to avoid getting stuck in a quagmire when dealing with ignorant(not stupid), or stupid LEO. The way the gentleman dealt with the manager is not only encouraged, it is recommended. I don't think anyone would criticize this guy as much as make suggestions that might protect him/her better in the future if he/she isn't as lucky to come across such respectful LEO next time.
Knowing and exercising our rights does not equate to disrespecting an officer of the law.
Glock19, you may consider what the quoted OP posted as catching more fly's with honey than with vinegar, but I don't think that one can equate such a euphemism with the practice of OC.
There are still a ridiculous number of LEO that either aren't familiar with legal/lawful OC of a firearm, or don't care that it's legal/lawful. We've seen several instances where LEO have ticketed, seized property and even arrested people that deserved none of the above. Reserving our 2nd, 4th and 5th amendment rights has been proven the best way to avoid getting stuck in a quagmire when dealing with ignorant(not stupid), or stupid LEO. The way the gentleman dealt with the manager is not only encouraged, it is recommended. I don't think anyone would criticize this guy as much as make suggestions that might protect him/her better in the future if he/she isn't as lucky to come across such respectful LEO next time.
mikestilly
Regular Member
imported post
REX681959 wrote:
No need for a lanyard. If I'm OCing & not in my car I leave my ID & CPL in my car console. It puts the issue to bed even if your rights are violated.
I also agree with Mike(fatboy). It's been proven time after time its safest to stick to wash, rinse, repeat and saying nothing more. It prevents/protects yourself from making things worse.
Mike
REX681959 wrote:
No need for a lanyard. If I'm OCing & not in my car I leave my ID & CPL in my car console. It puts the issue to bed even if your rights are violated.
I also agree with Mike(fatboy). It's been proven time after time its safest to stick to wash, rinse, repeat and saying nothing more. It prevents/protects yourself from making things worse.
Mike
American Sheepdog
Regular Member
imported post
FatboyCykes wrote:
FatboyCykes wrote:
A lot of people who know they are obedient of the law, fear jail too much. If we are innocent in our OC routine, and we are arrested because if ignorance, that jail entrance is the gate to our new found prosperity. It's instant cash flow. As long as we follow the rules I previously mentioned, an the rules mentioned above, then what recourse is there then for the city not to settle out of court? I swear, if I follow the law, and I am not irrational in my actions, and I am arrested, my name will be on the front of city hall. Do not complain if arrested for contempt of cop, but rejoice. Shut your mouth and lawyer up, and start thinking of the many ways you are going to spend the cash.
manicdevery
Regular Member
imported post
Glock 19 wrote:
I have to go with Venator on this one. I am not anti-cop and do not believe venator or any loyal, long time, runnning member of MOC is either, but the phrase inocent till proven guilty is morelike guilty till proven inocent when OCing. Venator has helped me as well as others to keep ourselves as well as LEOs in check duringencounters. I find it hard to feel free when being detained.
to Glock 19, i feel we are all in this for the same cause and have seen a lot of good/useful comments come out of you in this forum, but i do not feel that "common sense that godgave you" applies to any OC, deffinetly not tothe public who we are trying to educate or otherwise we wouldn't have the problems we do, but most of this forum is full of useful information based on proffesional experiece AND common sense. I personally hope Venator continues to beour president for years to comeand as long as that is so& the goals of MOC stay the same,i will continue to pay my dues. . . but next time i am getting a CHARTER MEMBERSHIP!!!
Devery
Glock 19 wrote:
I have to go with Venator on this one. I am not anti-cop and do not believe venator or any loyal, long time, runnning member of MOC is either, but the phrase inocent till proven guilty is morelike guilty till proven inocent when OCing. Venator has helped me as well as others to keep ourselves as well as LEOs in check duringencounters. I find it hard to feel free when being detained.
to Glock 19, i feel we are all in this for the same cause and have seen a lot of good/useful comments come out of you in this forum, but i do not feel that "common sense that godgave you" applies to any OC, deffinetly not tothe public who we are trying to educate or otherwise we wouldn't have the problems we do, but most of this forum is full of useful information based on proffesional experiece AND common sense. I personally hope Venator continues to beour president for years to comeand as long as that is so& the goals of MOC stay the same,i will continue to pay my dues. . . but next time i am getting a CHARTER MEMBERSHIP!!!
Devery
SlowDog
Regular Member
imported post
I know I tend to come off as a basher of LEO's sometimes and I feel with good cause. They over step their bounds on purpose more often then not. I was questioned in the late 80's about a shooting in Oscoda Michigan when I lived there. I was ignorant of my rights at the time and handed over my weapon for testing knowing I had done nothing wrong. Since I had a 10mm and it was a 10mm involved in the shooting<which they never told me til I was arrested> I was singled out.
I cooperated as I was always told we should do when we know we are innocent. I was tried for shooting a transformer and a mailbox. Federal Crime people!!:what::what:
I had to go into serious debt and was almost convicted of doint something while I was down state visiting my parents. The investigating officer changed 2 witness statements. I was told I was gonna go away for a very long time and to plea-bargain it down by my own lawyer!! I was even handed some info no one outside of the investigation knew to convince the judge it was me so I could get it reduced to a misdemeanor and 90 days in jail. The judge said he would not reduce the sentence and was gonna put me in jail for at least 5 years per charge!!!!
All this because I handed over my weapon to an officer but since I knew I wasn't even in the area I was "SAFE". Thank GOD someone came foreward who happen to witness the shooting and I was found innocent. I was still in serious debt to a lawyer who tried to convince me to say I did it even though he knew I wasn't within 250 miles of the area.
This is the reason why I look at every LEO as a person who is intent on doing whatever it takes to put me away. I know there are some great men & woman doing the job and some are even friends of mine. but this attitude has been hardened even more dealing with the DOT officers as a truck driver. After looking at 10 years in PRISON for something I didn't do and they even had me convinced I should plead it down!! I am always very polite to officers for I deal with them on a daily basis but I will never ever relenquish my rights EVER AGAIN!!
Sorry for being so long winded on this but I felt I needed to give a little back ground as to my feelings towards LEO's and why I support Brian's and our cause the way I do.....just saying.....
I know I tend to come off as a basher of LEO's sometimes and I feel with good cause. They over step their bounds on purpose more often then not. I was questioned in the late 80's about a shooting in Oscoda Michigan when I lived there. I was ignorant of my rights at the time and handed over my weapon for testing knowing I had done nothing wrong. Since I had a 10mm and it was a 10mm involved in the shooting<which they never told me til I was arrested> I was singled out.
I cooperated as I was always told we should do when we know we are innocent. I was tried for shooting a transformer and a mailbox. Federal Crime people!!:what::what:
I had to go into serious debt and was almost convicted of doint something while I was down state visiting my parents. The investigating officer changed 2 witness statements. I was told I was gonna go away for a very long time and to plea-bargain it down by my own lawyer!! I was even handed some info no one outside of the investigation knew to convince the judge it was me so I could get it reduced to a misdemeanor and 90 days in jail. The judge said he would not reduce the sentence and was gonna put me in jail for at least 5 years per charge!!!!
All this because I handed over my weapon to an officer but since I knew I wasn't even in the area I was "SAFE". Thank GOD someone came foreward who happen to witness the shooting and I was found innocent. I was still in serious debt to a lawyer who tried to convince me to say I did it even though he knew I wasn't within 250 miles of the area.
This is the reason why I look at every LEO as a person who is intent on doing whatever it takes to put me away. I know there are some great men & woman doing the job and some are even friends of mine. but this attitude has been hardened even more dealing with the DOT officers as a truck driver. After looking at 10 years in PRISON for something I didn't do and they even had me convinced I should plead it down!! I am always very polite to officers for I deal with them on a daily basis but I will never ever relenquish my rights EVER AGAIN!!
Sorry for being so long winded on this but I felt I needed to give a little back ground as to my feelings towards LEO's and why I support Brian's and our cause the way I do.....just saying.....
autosurgeon
Regular Member
imported post
Good post Slowdog!
Good post Slowdog!
dougwg
Regular Member
imported post
If we could rely on ALL LEO's doing the right thing, then and only then can we always cooperate by submitting to their requests. But we aren't and probably never will be there.
Glock 19, you ask us to do something that would ONLY be in our best interests in fantasy land.
Yes, I'll be nice. No, I will not raise my voice. No, I will not insult the LEO. No officer I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I will alway resist VERBALLY, I will never resist PHYSICALLY.
Yes I know personally all to well about being railroaded.
If we could rely on ALL LEO's doing the right thing, then and only then can we always cooperate by submitting to their requests. But we aren't and probably never will be there.
Glock 19, you ask us to do something that would ONLY be in our best interests in fantasy land.
Yes, I'll be nice. No, I will not raise my voice. No, I will not insult the LEO. No officer I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I will alway resist VERBALLY, I will never resist PHYSICALLY.
Yes I know personally all to well about being railroaded.
SlowDog
Regular Member
imported post
Forgot to mention I lost my job over it & was treated like a leper for a long time in the community for something I didn't do. Just because I cooperated like a good sheeple.....just sayin....
Forgot to mention I lost my job over it & was treated like a leper for a long time in the community for something I didn't do. Just because I cooperated like a good sheeple.....just sayin....