And in other news, the Senate voted 28-8 yesterday to allow themselves to not be bound by the gun laws they're enacting on the people.
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AB 144: Open Carry Ban (Here we go again.)
- Thread starter MudCamper
- Start date
Here's the video: http://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewVideo/2627
Starts at 1:02:00
ETA: Wow, Walter destroys the various arguments the promoters of AB 144 have given. Good on him.
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KBCraig
Regular Member
Holy crap, they actually get away with charging $59.95 for a DVD copy?
Just a little help
I'm just a little worried about going out and open carrying unloaded as I am not sure were AB144 is at, if it passed, and even if passed when it would be come law. I see a good amount of support to go out and carry, but I would hate to have missed the memo that said it was now illegal! Can anyone tell me is it still legal to open carry unloaded, and how would one know if it becomes illegal?
Thanks Chris
I'm just a little worried about going out and open carrying unloaded as I am not sure were AB144 is at, if it passed, and even if passed when it would be come law. I see a good amount of support to go out and carry, but I would hate to have missed the memo that said it was now illegal! Can anyone tell me is it still legal to open carry unloaded, and how would one know if it becomes illegal?
Thanks Chris
Iopencarry
Regular Member
1) it is still legal to unloaded open carry in CA
2) keep informed, watch this site, read the paper, watch t.v., It will be all over the news when and if AB144 passes.
3)become involved in trying to KILL THE BILL
Right now, AB144
The Bill AB 144, open carry ban is still in committees in the Senate. Next it will be heard in the Senate Appropriations(money). Then will(if passes) make it to the Senate floor. If passes there, then goes back to Assemble for a final vote. Then to Brown.
IF he signs it, or lets it sit on his table unsigned it becomes law. He can also veto it.
Once it becomes law, there are several lawsuits that will be filed against it. The lawsuits would place it on hold until the court case is disposed of.
The Bill, if passed does not take effect until 01/01/2012 at the earliest. Then the lawsuits, so it will most likely not be illegal to carry until after 2012 is over. maybe even longer, as the NRA/CalGuns will take this all the way to SCOTUS.
2) keep informed, watch this site, read the paper, watch t.v., It will be all over the news when and if AB144 passes.
3)become involved in trying to KILL THE BILL
Right now, AB144
The Bill AB 144, open carry ban is still in committees in the Senate. Next it will be heard in the Senate Appropriations(money). Then will(if passes) make it to the Senate floor. If passes there, then goes back to Assemble for a final vote. Then to Brown.
IF he signs it, or lets it sit on his table unsigned it becomes law. He can also veto it.
Once it becomes law, there are several lawsuits that will be filed against it. The lawsuits would place it on hold until the court case is disposed of.
The Bill, if passed does not take effect until 01/01/2012 at the earliest. Then the lawsuits, so it will most likely not be illegal to carry until after 2012 is over. maybe even longer, as the NRA/CalGuns will take this all the way to SCOTUS.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Don't hold your breath.
Greyh Seer
Regular Member
I am so glad I don't live in California. However, I always watch thier legal outlook with interest. A legal victory in California is worth two almost anywhere else (except maybe Illinois). Stay strong and fight for your rights!
Gundude
Regular Member
Next on the list
If and when we get the right to bear arms ironed out, the next great battle will be over what is and what isn't a sensitive area. Schools and government buildings was mentioned in Heller, but I'm sure the anti's will try to expand on it.
If and when we get the right to bear arms ironed out, the next great battle will be over what is and what isn't a sensitive area. Schools and government buildings was mentioned in Heller, but I'm sure the anti's will try to expand on it.
KBCraig
Regular Member
Well, just to be positive about it, a negative ruling by the 9th District is worth two wins almost anywhere else.
Anything the 9th rules against, is almost certain to be overturned.
As many others are predicting, I believe that this bill will pass and become law, making UOC in the Golden State a criminal act. I believe the momentum and tone among lawmakers, law enforcement and the general public overwhelmingly favors the passage of this bill.
UOC has become a controversial issue since it came to the forefront about 5 years ago, initiated by a group of Bay Area UOC'rs who often frequented Starbucks stores while UOC'ing. Since that time, the practice has spread throughout the state at various venues and more groups began to form, such as Harley Green's South Bay group. I am glad there are people among us who accepted the risks knowing the resistance, possible negative treatment from law enforcement and public scrutiny that would be inflicted upon themselves. Yet despite the odds, they chose to exercise their rights which has paved the way for public forums, debates and legitimate discussion around this subject.
It's obvious the majority of people living in this state do not appreciate or understand the desire to carry an exposed firearm. In the court of public opinion, even if the right to UOC were preserved, it will take many more years before society reaches a point of acceptance and grows accustomed to seeing everyday people carrying exposed firearms.
So while I am hopeful the bill will fail, I believe it will pass and put an end to UOC permanently.
Having said all of that, I believe if this bill does pass it will probably put pressure on lawmakers to enact a shall issue policy for CCW applicant's living in CA. That would would be a huge victory for CCW'rs but I still think a total loss for 2A gun rights. It will be very interesting to see how much publicity and media coverage this bill receives as it works its way through Sacramento and gets closer to a house/senate vote.
UOC has become a controversial issue since it came to the forefront about 5 years ago, initiated by a group of Bay Area UOC'rs who often frequented Starbucks stores while UOC'ing. Since that time, the practice has spread throughout the state at various venues and more groups began to form, such as Harley Green's South Bay group. I am glad there are people among us who accepted the risks knowing the resistance, possible negative treatment from law enforcement and public scrutiny that would be inflicted upon themselves. Yet despite the odds, they chose to exercise their rights which has paved the way for public forums, debates and legitimate discussion around this subject.
It's obvious the majority of people living in this state do not appreciate or understand the desire to carry an exposed firearm. In the court of public opinion, even if the right to UOC were preserved, it will take many more years before society reaches a point of acceptance and grows accustomed to seeing everyday people carrying exposed firearms.
So while I am hopeful the bill will fail, I believe it will pass and put an end to UOC permanently.
Having said all of that, I believe if this bill does pass it will probably put pressure on lawmakers to enact a shall issue policy for CCW applicant's living in CA. That would would be a huge victory for CCW'rs but I still think a total loss for 2A gun rights. It will be very interesting to see how much publicity and media coverage this bill receives as it works its way through Sacramento and gets closer to a house/senate vote.
One can only hope that if the bill does pass it get appealed all the way to the SCOTUS. To be very candid, I doubt seriously that it will however. I may be wrong. We will just have to wait and see how it all turns out, however I do not think the NRA is that committed to fighting this. I think they're more focused on bigger battles that lie ahead, such as 50 state (CCW) reciprocity and/or anti-gun (UN style) legislation.
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I dont believe the general public is overwhelmingly in favor of this bill, I have encountered quite a lot of people who are on our side but like most every other Californian they are lazy, apathetic and dont want to take up a cause that could get them in trouble. They much prefer to stay with the herd and wait for someone else to do the hero work
While they "say" they agree with our argument "doing" anything about it is a different story.
There are probably equal numbers of Pro and Anti people in this debate actively and actually doing something, a small percentage. But the bulk of the "people" are content to follow the herd and drink the same Kool Aid, which for the past 20 some odd years has been unfortunately the brady brand. But the pendulum is on a slow swing back to the conservative side, its just the blue states that will be the last to feel it. (NY, IL, CA for example).
While they "say" they agree with our argument "doing" anything about it is a different story.
There are probably equal numbers of Pro and Anti people in this debate actively and actually doing something, a small percentage. But the bulk of the "people" are content to follow the herd and drink the same Kool Aid, which for the past 20 some odd years has been unfortunately the brady brand. But the pendulum is on a slow swing back to the conservative side, its just the blue states that will be the last to feel it. (NY, IL, CA for example).
No question about it, there are certainly folks who feel it's our 2A right and they aren't against us. However, unless they get involved and make their voices heard, they're not really for us either. It's a bit like saying, California is a conservative state by majority, but those people don't vote in the elections. Yeah...they're out there, but they might as well be non-existent.
Your point about the pendulum swinging back is well taken. I agree. There have been some victories along the way just in the past 10 years, the sunset of and failure to reinstitute a new federal assault weapons ban and the SCOTUS ruling in McDonald vs. Chicago are all excellent examples. Many states have adopted CCW laws and added castle doctrine to the books. So while all of that has been good on a much broader scale (from a national point of view), CA is going in reverse in order to take more of our rights away.
The consequences of bad legislation
I think this is going to pass. The lawmakers vote with the political winds, and could care less about upholding the Constitution. Gov Brown will be way too busy releasing 10 of thousands of prisoners to bother with vetoing this bill. The LEO"s will be very busy trying to rearrest all the released prisoners, as they resume their chosen careers as drug dealers,robbers ,burglars and murders. This law if passed will go straight to the federal courts, hopefully under a writ of mandate/injuction procedure, which are heard quickly. I can't see how it will survive in Federal Court ultimately.
In the meantime, my magazine feed 7 round Valtro PM-5 shotgun can be loaded just as fast as any handgun, and really is a far better defense weapon. It is just big, ugly and much more intimidating to carry around, and probably will scare the hell out of a lot of people in public carrying it around in a combat sling, instead bof a small discreet handgun in a holster. Long guns will be the only choice left thanks to this stupid legislation. Those O-C Starbuck's meetings are really going to get "amped up" when open carriers show up with shotguns and AR clone rifles. Do you think the LEO's are going to feel any more comfortable approaching a group of OC'ers with much more deadly looking weapons? I doubt it. I don't want to scare people, I just want to keep the crooks from hurting me or my family, and will do whatever it takes....Got it Governor Brown?
I think this is going to pass. The lawmakers vote with the political winds, and could care less about upholding the Constitution. Gov Brown will be way too busy releasing 10 of thousands of prisoners to bother with vetoing this bill. The LEO"s will be very busy trying to rearrest all the released prisoners, as they resume their chosen careers as drug dealers,robbers ,burglars and murders. This law if passed will go straight to the federal courts, hopefully under a writ of mandate/injuction procedure, which are heard quickly. I can't see how it will survive in Federal Court ultimately.
In the meantime, my magazine feed 7 round Valtro PM-5 shotgun can be loaded just as fast as any handgun, and really is a far better defense weapon. It is just big, ugly and much more intimidating to carry around, and probably will scare the hell out of a lot of people in public carrying it around in a combat sling, instead bof a small discreet handgun in a holster. Long guns will be the only choice left thanks to this stupid legislation. Those O-C Starbuck's meetings are really going to get "amped up" when open carriers show up with shotguns and AR clone rifles. Do you think the LEO's are going to feel any more comfortable approaching a group of OC'ers with much more deadly looking weapons? I doubt it. I don't want to scare people, I just want to keep the crooks from hurting me or my family, and will do whatever it takes....Got it Governor Brown?
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We-the-People
Regular Member
If this bill passes and is signed, I will be buying a new firearm. A nice, scary black (Calif legal) long gun of some sort and I will be sure to carry it every time I come down to visit my relatives. Possibly a Cali legal AR flatform.
I'm also working (rough idea stage) on a method to carry lawfully, even with this bill, that would neuter the GFSZ BS. It's going to depend on an aquaintance of mine that does toy company prototypes (man he's got KEWL manufacturing abilities).
As a Calif native (and current political refugee) it disgusts me to see the legislature continuing to step on the Constitution and The People.
I'm also working (rough idea stage) on a method to carry lawfully, even with this bill, that would neuter the GFSZ BS. It's going to depend on an aquaintance of mine that does toy company prototypes (man he's got KEWL manufacturing abilities).
As a Calif native (and current political refugee) it disgusts me to see the legislature continuing to step on the Constitution and The People.