• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

AB299 introduced - Exclude off-duty LEO from GFSZ

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
Anyway, I did send off an email to both my reps.

Dear Rep. Krusick,

I have recently become aware of 2 bills (AB299 and AB479) regarding permissions of police and concealed carry.

AB299 text reads;
Current law generally prohibits a person from possessing or discharging a firearm in, or on the grounds of, a school or within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school. Current law contains several exemptions to this prohibition, including law enforcement officers who are acting in their official capacity and, if the person is not in or on the grounds of a school, a person who holds a license to carry a concealed weapon. This bill eliminates the requirement that the officer be acting in his or her official capacity if the officer is authorized to carry a firearm; the officer is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the law enforcement agency that could result in the suspension or loss of his or her law enforcement authority; the officer is qualified
under standards established by the law enforcement agency to use a firearm; the law enforcement officer is not prohibited under federal law from possessing a firearm; the firearm is not a machine gun or a destructive device, such as a bomb; the officer is
not carrying a firearm silencer; and the officer is not under the influence of an intoxicant.

AB479 text reads;
Under current federal law, with certain exceptions, a law enforcement officer may carry a concealed weapon if he or she is also carrying an identification issued by the law enforcement agency that employs him or her; this federal provision
explicitly preempts any state prohibition. Under current state law, any person may apply for a license to carry a concealed weapon. When the person submits an application, the Department of Justice (DOJ) must run a background check on the
applicant to see if he or she is prohibited from possessing a firearm. The person must also submit a fee to cover the costs of the application and the background check and must submit proof of training. Under this bill, DOJ must provide a license to carry
a concealed weapon to all law enforcement officers without the fee, background check, or training required by applicants who are not law enforcement officers.


In my opinion, AB299 is far too vague to become a law, it is unclear if the intent is to allow uniformed officers acting out of official capacity the ability to be on school grounds while armed, or is its intent to allow off duty the ability to carry concealed weapons on school grounds? Act 35 exempts license holders from GFSZ's 1000 foot rule, but does not exempt license holders from the actual school grounds. AB299 would give permissions police officers that citizens are not allowed. AB479 effectually exempts the police from requirements of Act 35 altogether. These bills are unfair as defined by the 14th amendment stated "nor shall any state ...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." A law specifying any class OR persons as exempt from a law is violating the 14th amendment unless that law pertains to all people. I am not against law enforcement officers the right to carry concealed weapons, however there should not be a separate set of rules for any class elite. I hope you have the opportunity to review these bills, and to express my concerns in my place.

I did get a response from both, stating they will look into it. I sent these out a few weeks ago.
 

apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,157
Location
, ,
Not Really

and then the question is raised: since the law is grey regarding permit holders discharging in self defense in a school zone, what will the law do to 'the beautiful people' who discharge on school property in self defense?

The "law" - meaning we are not restricted to statutes alone permits use of a weapon in self-defense even if discharge is otherwise illegal. Even a violent felon is permitted to pick up a firearm for such a purpose. Beyond self-defense is the broader concept of "necessity." Thus a person who shoots a malefactor in self-defense and then breaks into a pharmacy to obtain supplies to treat the wound would not be liable for trespass or theft.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Lrb4033/5

I received this notification. It applies to LRB 4033/5. Anyone familiar with the context of LRB 4033/5?



Subject: firearms
The date/time of a public hearing regarding LRB 4033/5 scheduled by Committee on Labor, Public Safety, and Urban Affairs in the Senate was changed. Date/time: The meeting time was changed from 3/7/2012 12:30 PM to 3/8/2012 12:30 PM. Location: 201 Southeast.
Topic description: Relating to: law enforcement officers who are on duty, off-duty law enforcement officers, and former law enforcement officers and going armed with firearms.
By Senator Wanggaard; cosponsored by Representatives Kleefisch and Bies

There is no reference to a Bill number so I am not certain if it applies to AB299.
 
Last edited:

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Let's get people who are licensed included in this as well or it should not pass!!!

To recap, current GFSZ law allows LEO to carry on school grounds only while on duty. This change would allow them to carry, for example, if they are going to their child's soccer game.

A special class of citizens, I think NOT!!!

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/AB299hst.html



I think that if this passes, you may have a strong argument that it is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution. In the case of SILVEIRA v. LOCKYER (2002), a case which was terrible in regards to the 2nd Amendment in general, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that an exception in CA law regarding "Assault Weapons" (sic) which excluded retired law enforcement officers failed on even a very weak rational-basis review. Since this bill also has an exclusion for people who have no law-enforcement purpose, an argument could be made that this law would also fail that weak of a test. If a higher level of review is applied in light of cases in Wisconsin and recent 2A decisions from SCOTUS (Heller & McDonald), perhaps you would have a stronger case than the one presented below. BTW, I didn't see a severability clause, therefore the whole statute could be deemed unconstitutional.

-see Section "C" at the following link: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1464183.html#search="ninth circuit "second amendment""
 
Last edited:

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I received this notification. It applies to LRB 4033/5. Anyone familiar with the context of LRB 4033/5?



Subject: firearms
The date/time of a public hearing regarding LRB 4033/5 scheduled by Committee on Labor, Public Safety, and Urban Affairs in the Senate was changed. Date/time: The meeting time was changed from 3/7/2012 12:30 PM to 3/8/2012 12:30 PM. Location: 201 Southeast.
Topic description: Relating to: law enforcement officers who are on duty, off-duty law enforcement officers, and former law enforcement officers and going armed with firearms.
By Senator Wanggaard; cosponsored by Representatives Kleefisch and Bies

There is no reference to a Bill number so I am not certain if it applies to AB299.

Here it is. It seems similar to AB299.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19481227/11-40335.pdf
 
Top