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Accidental discharge of my husband’s Glock 19 - Your help needed

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
So is this the governments new attempt to force training? Charge you with some bogus crime and plea it down to you agreeing to take training?

I understand and agree that I would gladly take a few hours of training to avoid any charge but I would prefer the court drop the charges with a request that the person take training not a demand.

But she's daaaaaannnnnngeroussssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

And in spite of soverign immunity the judge does not want to be raked over the hot presses for turning her loose on the community until she has had her shots. (Thank you! I'll be here all week.)

stay safe.
 

love4guns

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
167
Location
Lynchburg
Minnie had already taken the NRA "First Steps" course, and had a certificate with her. But the prosecutor wants her to have taken the NRA "Basic Pistol" course. Part of the problem is that there's a space on the certificate she had with her that said she'd trained using a .22lr revolver, and the gun in this case was a semiautomatic (Glock 17, if I recall correctly). So the deal is that the case is continued to August 16 to give her time to take the course, case to be nolle pros'ed. and gun to be returned.

Sounds like a slam dunk, hole-in-one, touchdown, knockout, homerun, or an ACE if your a tennis fan LOL....Nice Job Mr. Hawes :monkey
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
I figured the course wouldn't hurt, any, and "dismissed" means "dismissed", regardless of how you got there. It was the Commonwealth's suggestion, but we agreed to it. It does mean one more court date, and we could have gone to trial that day. But going to trial adds a new variable, and that's how this particular judge is feeling that day. That could have meant not just one more day in court, but days in court on appeal in circuit. This was relatively quick, painless, she can use the training (she is something of a novice, after all, despite her husband's having given her instruction in the past), and as I said, "dismissed" is "dismissed". No jail, no fines, no court costs, not even dismissal with a finding of guilt (which if recorded, will screw up a subsequent expungement).
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Awesome news. FWIW IMHO this is a good decision. In fact I think it's completely reasonable to ask someone who has a ND in public to simply take a safety course. The process is a big waste, it should have been more like a ticket given by the cop. "Miss, it's important to handle your firearm safely. Here is a schedule for the county's free gun safety course given 3 times a week. Please attend one and mail in the certificate along with this citation within 60 days. Have a nice day."
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
Minnie had already taken the NRA "First Steps" course, and had a certificate with her. But the prosecutor wants her to have taken the NRA "Basic Pistol" course. Part of the problem is that there's a space on the certificate she had with her that said she'd trained using a .22lr revolver, and the gun in this case was a semiautomatic (Glock 17, if I recall correctly). So the deal is that the case is continued to August 16 to give her time to take the course, case to be nolle pros'ed. and gun to be returned.

Good job Dan! :banana:

Things have been a little hectic here, so I haven't dropped that check in the mail yet.... but instead, it looks like Jim is going to have a 'Basic Firearms Safety' class in Chantilly on July 28 & 29 ... if this will meet the court requirement, I will pay her admission into his class for one of those dates.

http://proactiveshooters.com/course-calendar/
 

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
I have no issue with someone clearing a firearm while inside their vehicle. The key here is to understand your manual of arms. If you do not know 100% how to handle a firearm safely and how to clear it correctly, then the best course of action is to not handle it at all. I can make a best guess by reading posts here how the round ended up in the chamber...a simple reversal or operations.



1) Look
2) Feel
3) Look again

I'm sure some of my prior students know what I mean by that. There's a freebie. No cost.


+10.000


As a fellow instructor, Everything ProShooter said above is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!
Everyone here knows how "passionate" I am about this particular subject.
I will refrain from commenting on this incident as I feel very sorry for the "accused" in this case.
I have 4 kids and know poverty. Part of the reason I've been gone for awhile.
I'm sorry I can't make a donation in this case.
As for the actual incident; Nothing "Grey" in this one. ND, pure and simple.
Good luck
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
She's getting her individualized course on the 28th by a certified NRA instructor, a member of this forum, at cost, which she's indicated she could handle. If not, the instructor will cover the remainder.
 

Riana

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
943
Location
Fairfax County, VA
She's getting her individualized course on the 28th by a certified NRA instructor, a member of this forum, at cost, which she's indicated she could handle. If not, the instructor will cover the remainder.

I'm happy to help out, Tess. :)

I assume there will be a court date in August? If so, keep me in the loop - I'd like to come along.
 

Accidental2012

New member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
5
Location
United States
Successfully Completed

She's getting her individualized course on the 28th by a certified NRA instructor, a member of this forum, at cost, which she's indicated she could handle. If not, the instructor will cover the remainder.

THANK YOU so much for all of everyone's support and comments. I have received my certificate for the "Basic Pistol Course", and my instructor is willing to provide more training for me in her spare time. My Lawyer is still continuing to help me, and so are quite a few lady instructors. I can not say THANK YOU enough for all your continued support and comments.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
First - welcome to the forum. Wish it were under better circumstances.
Second - glad it turned out as well as it did.
Third - have a browse over at www.corneredcat.com
Kathy gives a lot of information in very readable form. And when you get around to the part about cleaning, you'll see there's lots of illustrations of Glocks.

user said:
the case is continued to August 16 to give her time to take the course, case to be nolle pros'ed. and gun to be returned.
:banana: :monkey
I think that's just as important as the criminal charge going away.

kenny said:
I've been in several situations as an EMS provider where that was necessary due to a traffic crash.
If it's left alone, it won't go bang.
If it needs to be taken off the person's belt, leave it in the holster.
If you can't do that, find your smallest hard case, dump the contents into a biohazard bag, & set the pistol in with a pillow over it so it won't slide around as much. Or use a BP cuff bag, if it's large enough. Something to try & prevent the trigger from being actuated. :rolleyes:
In all those cases, wait for the police to handle it from there.
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
successful conclusion

The defendant took the NRA Basic Pistol class as requested by the Commonwealth's Attorney, showed up in court this morning with the certificate and I got an order entered dismissing the case with prejudice and providing for the prompt return of the firearm. That's basically a final verdict of "not guilty". I've found that Commonwealth's Attorney's office (Prince William County) to be pretty reasonable about these cases, for which I commend them. And thanks to instructor Riana.
 

Steeler-gal

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
560
Location
Fairfax County, VA
Accidental discharge of my husband’s Glock 19 - Your help needed

As I told Dan, I was happy to help. :)

I agree with Peter_nap - you always go the extra mile.


==========================================
NRA Certified Instructor & Range Safety Officer
Teaching classes in Lorton VA & Springfield VA
PM me if you need a class, RSO or safety briefing
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
This was an accidental discharge, noting that we commonly use the word, "accident" to include acts of simple negligence, along with random, unpredictable events. This may have been an act of simple negligence. However the facts indicate that she was doing what she could to do what she was doing safely, and in particular, being scrupulous about keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. She made a couple of mistakes, first in the order of operations, resulting in a round being in the chamber unexpectedly, and secondly, attempting to remove the slide (requiring a pull of the trigger) instead of merely locking the slide back. But such mistakes coupled with adherence to the safety rules do not constitute "gross negligence", much less "recklessness".

Recklessness, in the criminal context, requires such a degree of indifference to life, limb, and property, as to constitute criminal malice. If she'd had the gun pointed at a crowd of people when attempting to unload it instead of down at the seat in the van, that would have been recklessness. This was not reckless handling of a firearm, it was careful handling of a firearm with a couple of unfortunate mistakes. If she hadn't been the owner of the vehicle that now has a hole in the seat, the owner could sue her for negligence, but this was clearly not a crime, and I think it was wrong to have charged her.

I have observed an increase, generally, in such charges around Virginia, which I believe is merely an attempt to "get guns off the street" on the part of law enforcement, since they always seize the guns and almost never give them back.

Thanks for this.

There is precisely zero legal significance to the "accidental" vs "negligence" differentiation, unless we're talking about gross negligence, which a simple mistake does not qualify as.

It's one thing for the gun community to encourage responsibility by diminishing the significance of "accidental" (as opposed to negligent) discharge, but it's quite another to take this to the extreme of perpetuating the belief that fellow gun owners are guilty of a criminal act (which, incidentally, really ought to have an element of mens rea) because they had an accident of negligence.

IMO, Bob1 should be (just a little bit) ashamed.
 
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