After how many drinks is carrying a no-no?

[Trigger Dr]

Oh noes, someone that can do personal responsibility like drink and carry...



I called you a liar because I don't believe you. I can't think of a single person on planet earth who hasn't had a drink and then drove at least once in his/her life.

By this statement, you imply that you have met every person on planet earth.

 

[acmariner99]

Just like every other issue, legislating morality will not fix or prevent anything. It is my personal choice to not mix firearms with alcohol under any circumstances -- and under my roof I will expect that my guests do the same, otherwise, I don't care what choices others make in regards to guns and alcohol. I think it is simply common sense to not drink and carry and it is also my right to think you are being incredibly stupid if you drink and carry, but that is just me and I won't stop you from doing it.

 

[gogodawgs]

Just like every other issue, legislating morality will not fix or prevent anything. It is my personal choice to not mix firearms with alcohol under any circumstances -- and under my roof I will expect that my guests do the same, otherwise, I don't care what choices others make in regards to guns and alcohol. I think it is simply common sense to not drink and carry and it is also my right to think you are being incredibly stupid if you drink and carry, but that is just me and I won't stop you from doing it.

Really? I have a drink with my dinner and I am incredibly stupid? Interesting... What is more interesting is that the zero tolerance crowd name calling and chastising responsible gun owners. Burying their head in the sand and not acknowledging that one can drink an adult beverage and carry in a responsible manner.

Guns do not jump out of a holster. Guns, just like knives, car keys, baseball bats can and do remain in their proper place while people drink responsibly. It is as though when some talk of 'drink and carry' that there is only one possible outcome... that one must drink to excess, that excessive drinking is the only outcome. That simply is not true. I find the attitude of the zero tolerance group fascinating, and an exercise in projection.

Nope, wait.....your right I am incredibly stupid.

 

[BigDave]

Is alcohol really that big of an issue in ones life to be so outspoken about it?
My thoughts on it is so what if others are upset if I have one or two drinks once in a while and never to a point to effect others or my safety.

Those who choose to drink while carrying is not an issue unless they make it one and then by all means if you feel uncomfortable with them drinking while is possession then relocate or if in your home etc asked them to leave.

It appears those who are so outspoken about zero tolerance and those so outspoken about I can drink what I want period, both have or have had issues with alcohol/drugs.

 

[OC for ME]

<snip> It appears those who are so outspoken about zero tolerance and those so outspoken about I can drink what I want period, both have or have had issues with alcohol/drugs.

Outspoken = druggie and/or wino.....got it.

 

[BigDave]

Snip--It appears those who are so outspoken about zero tolerance and those so outspoken about I can drink what I want period, both have or have had issues with alcohol/drugs.

Outspoken = druggie and/or wino.....got it.

Reading Skills and Comprehension need to be employed here, "have or have had issues" does not mean they are or have been a druggie or wino it could have well been being around or knowing someone with those issues.

But then that is all you took away from the post!

 

[OC for ME]

Once a druggie and/or wino always a druggie and/or wino....."a recovering 'X' is never fully recovered and is one step away from relapse. if you believe recovering druggies and/or winos. You made the association not me.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

Is alcohol really that big of an issue in ones life to be so outspoken about it?

I think part of it might be how easily people can get whipped up into a frenzy by propaganda. Many many things can influence a person to make a bad judgment call with a gun or cause someone to have an accident with a gun... Alcohol can be one, so can lack of rest, so can being dumped by a mate, so can lack of firearms training etc. These don't cause nearly the reaction that eating rum cake and carrying seems to cause.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

I feel an adrenaline rush when I shoot, whether it be any type of defensive drill or just paper shooting. Maybe that's just me, but I'd imagine that if I ever had to draw my weapon adrenaline would kick in and wipe out any exhaustion that might have been there. Can it [an adrenaline rush] do the same to someone who is intoxicated? I doubt it could, so I don't think that question is relevant. That being said, I don't know for sure. I've never been drunk at a bar and had to pull my weapon.

You know mainely this was a great question that's been rattling around upstairs since I read it. I remember seeing (again I think it was a myth busters so not claiming to have fact at hand) that vigorous exercise has an immediate and definite sobering effect. I wonder about your adrenaline scenario as well.

 

[acmariner99]

Really? I have a drink with my dinner and I am incredibly stupid? Interesting... What is more interesting is that the zero tolerance crowd name calling and chastising responsible gun owners. Burying their head in the sand and not acknowledging that one can drink an adult beverage and carry in a responsible manner.

Guns do not jump out of a holster. Guns, just like knives, car keys, baseball bats can and do remain in their proper place while people drink responsibly. It is as though when some talk of 'drink and carry' that there is only one possible outcome... that one must drink to excess, that excessive drinking is the only outcome. That simply is not true. I find the attitude of the zero tolerance group fascinating, and an exercise in projection.

Nope, wait.....your right I am incredibly stupid.

So you see fit to chastise my right to freedom of expression and my right to decide what behaviors I deem acceptable or unacceptable under my own roof? And I also love how you are putting words in my mouth - I never said you can't carry or drink responsibly. Alcohol dampens ones decision making skills and reflexes after only one drink .. that is a scientific fact. I choose not to take a chance with that fact. I nearly got t-boned by a drunk driver once upon a time and have seen too many stories of innocents getting killed because somebody decided to drink and drive or play with a gun albeit the former happens far more often than the later. I can't control what they do, but I can control what I do and I can hope that the book gets thrown at people who choose to drink alcohol and take a chance with somebody's life -- whether that is driving or you ND a firearm and injure or kill someone. Am I saying that is going to happen in every instance? Absolutely not! But I do equate carrying while intoxicated to be just as dangerous as somebody who is driving while intoxicated.

There is another reason -- if you had to act in self-defense after one or two drinks, any lawyer worth their salt will use the drinking and carrying argument to eat away your credibility as somebody who is responsible and I would think that most juries would agree with it. People know what alcohol is and what it does; it introduces an entirely new variable when determining whether an act of self defense was justified or not.

Finally, if I had a couple of drinks, then acted in self-defense with my sidearm. I cannot guarantee with any certainty that I will engage a bad guy or interact/not interact with law enforcement the same way as if I was perfectly sober, and in my opinion, nobody can.

 

[gogodawgs]

So you see fit to chastise my right to freedom of expression and my right to decide what behaviors I deem acceptable or unacceptable under my own roof? And I also love how you are putting words in my mouth - I never said you can't carry or drink responsibly. Alcohol dampens ones decision making skills and reflexes after only one drink .. that is a scientific fact. I choose not to take a chance with that fact. I nearly got t-boned by a drunk driver once upon a time and have seen too many stories of innocents getting killed because somebody decided to drink and drive or play with a gun albeit the former happens far more often than the later. I can't control what they do, but I can control what I do and I can hope that the book gets thrown at people who choose to drink alcohol and take a chance with somebody's life -- whether that is driving or you ND a firearm and injure or kill someone. Am I saying that is going to happen in every instance? Absolutely not! But I do equate carrying while intoxicated to be just as dangerous as somebody who is driving while intoxicated.

There is another reason -- if you had to act in self-defense after one or two drinks, any lawyer worth their salt will use the drinking and carrying argument to eat away your credibility as somebody who is responsible and I would think that most juries would agree with it. People know what alcohol is and what it does; it introduces an entirely new variable when determining whether an act of self defense was justified or not.

Finally, if I had a couple of drinks, then acted in self-defense with my sidearm. I cannot guarantee with any certainty that I will engage a bad guy or interact/not interact with law enforcement the same way as if I was perfectly sober, and in my opinion, nobody can.

Chastised your freedom of expression. Seriously? You own your words and you called millions of responsible gun owners who have a drink or two with dinner inccredibly stupid. (Straw-man argument #1)

Your example of one drink dampening reflexes and comparing it to being t-boned by a drunk driver show a leap in logic that does not exist. These are the same extremes that the anti gun folks use. You compare driving while intoxicated and carrying while intoxicated. I support neither and have never brought up more than 2 drinks while carrying. (Straw-man argument #2)

On multiple occasions Navy LCDR has asked for evidence of a court case where the level of alcohol was a factor in determining the outcome of a self defense shooting. Again, you bring it up and have shown no evidence. (Straw-man argument #3)

~signed
Nick Smith The Incredibly Stupid

 

[b0neZ]

For those of you in the zero tolerance crowd: If you are ever out to dinner or maybe a BBQ or any public gathering or festival and see someone drinking, I implore you to discreetly get you and yours out of the area before the drinker leaves, as you don't know what or if they are driving and where they may be going. It'd be the wise choice to get home before this menace has a chance to get behind the wheel. Whether or not they are armed makes no difference, because in your mind they are at that point an immediate threat.
As a matter of fact, it may be a good idea to never go to any of the aforementioned places solely because of that reason/risk.

To those who monitor no drinking while carrying in the home, that's totally cool. I get it, and know others that are the same line as you. That's definitely your right, and anyone who visits should be expected to abide by whatever rules you set or leave.

However most of us know that no matter what the scientific data says, no officer that we know of will arrest a healthy and right-minded person of being drunk after one or two (at the most) drinks (excluding mixed beverages, even then it's a real stretch).

Basically it comes down to personal choice:
If you don't like what's going on around you (someone drinking and carrying), go wherever makes you most comfortable.
If you can definitely stop at a real-world reasonable limit while carrying, have at it but expect the possibility of a few concerned people around you and act accordingly. For example, my limit is one beer carrying or not.
For those that like to tie one on at the end of the week, simply lock it up at home beforehand and until you stop seeing double and your hangover has subsided.

Problem solved.


But then again, the above is solely my personal opinion, and I'm incredibly stupid.