imported post
tbeenysw wrote:
Hello fellow gun enthusiasts, I am new to this forum and the Utah OC laws. One question I have is, what is the age requirement to OC "unloaded" in Utah? When I asked the BCI they said 18, but I have seen a lot of confusing things that scare me to where I don't want to OC until I hear from other OCers who obviously have knowledge about the laws. Also the BCI said that LEO have the right to detain me if I OC until they feel comfortable and see that I am not a threat to myself or others around me. Is that true? I want to OC, just not until I fully understand the laws. Also, if you are wondering, I am 18. Thanks.
There is a lot of confusion of 18-20 Year old carry in Utah. So I will attempt to clear it up as someone who falls into that age group. I'll speak in regards to Utah Requirements and then highlight an important federal requirement.
Anyone who may legally possess a firearm may carry an unloaded firearm in Utah. You are legally able to possess a handgun at age 18+
Loaded is defined in
76-10-502:
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.
Absent a Permit there are restrictions on where you can carry, namely school zones. Utah has a very broad definition of what a school zone is:
School Zones According to
76-3-203.2:
(1) (a) As used in this section and Section
76-10-505.5, "on or about school premises" means any of the following:
(i) in a public or private elementary, secondary, or on the grounds of any of those schools;
(ii) in a public or private vocational school or postsecondary institution or on the grounds of any of those schools or institutions;
(iii) in those portions of any building, park, stadium, or other structure or grounds which are, at the time of the act, being used for an activity sponsored by or through a school or institution under Subsections (1)(a)(i) and (ii);
(iv) in or on the grounds of a preschool or child-care facility; and
(v) within 1,000 feet of any structure, facility, or grounds included in Subsections (1)(a)(i), (ii), (iii), and (iv).
So Utah's school zones include: Public and Private K-12, Public and Private College, Anywhere an activity is sponsored by or through a K-12 and College School. Preschool and Child-Care Facilities. And last but not least the arbitrary 1000 feet within all of the above.
With that said you also have all the other places which are normally restricted from Permit holders as well...
That being said Utah DOES accept a permit issued by any State or County as if it was it's own. Some states, such as Maine, will issue a permit at 18 to non residents. This is the route I chose to go when I was only 19.
That being said however there is a Federal side to the coin that I will let you know about. It's called the Gun Free School Zone Act. It was originally enacted in 1990 but was overturned by the Supreme Court as "The possession ofa gun in a local school zone is in no sense an economic activity that might, through repetition elsewhere, substantially affect any sort of interstate commerce. Respondent was a local student at a local school; there is no indication that he had recently moved in interstate commerce, and
there is no requirement that his possession of the firearm have any concrete tie to interstate commerce." (United States vs. Lopez 1995)
Following the supreme court decision congress ignored the main finding and focused on the highlighted phrase requiring the prosecution to prove the firearm involved has moved through or affects interstate commerce. They then re-enacted the GFSZA in 1996 adding that phrase. It reads as follows:
2(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the
individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
How does this apply to you? Well if you decide that since you are not 21 and can't receive a Utah permit and therefore receive a Maine permit Utah exempts you from it's school zone laws, however you will not be exempt from this law.
Federal Law deals with K-12 schools and requires a permit from the state the school resides. There are also no exceptions to car carry unless it's unloaded and in a locked container.
Now given that I'm not saying you should safely ignore this law nor will I state on a public forum I ignore this law. I will however point out the following:
1. I'm not aware of anyone ever being prosecuted under this law, including individuals who have shot up schools.
2. Since congress failed to meet the Supreme Court's main finding that carrying guns around schools can in no way be regulated under the interstate commerce clause this is still likely an unconstitutional law. Explaining why they choose not to test it.
3. The stipulation about a permit needing to be from the same state the school zone resides opens up it's own can of worms. Afterall, by Utah recognizing all other permits isn't that the same as Utah Effectively licensing you?
Take those as you will.