Are anti-gun private businesses discriminating and violating our rights?

[twoskinsonemanns]

Not interested in your opinion on how I make my posts. This is my last reply on this, sorry for getting you so upset.

It's not an opinion. It's a forum rule. I tend to believe it's a good rule to boaster credibility.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

Only underwater is the correct answer?

well I was thinking more like the guys working at the propane bottling plant. But there may be others.

 

[papa bear]

:uhoh:

Only underwater is the correct answer?

Well being that smoking interfere with others Rights. Then with smoking tobacco, marijuana,or crack, you should only be able to do it in a fishbowl.
Now if you want to eat it or inject it, or snort it. More power to you

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

:uhoh:

Well being that smoking interfere with others Rights.

which right is that? The right to tell others how to live?
Ah yes! I have the *** damned right to breath 78% nitrogen 21% oxygen and 1% argon!
If someone farts in my vicinity of public area I share with others I want the government to use force to stop them!

I am so damn sick of these self righteous slavers! Hello! Someone smoking on the same street as you or the same building as you (assume decent ventilation) does not adversely affect you!
I know it stinks. I don't smoke. And the stink annoys me also. But get this through your head. You do not have the right to control everyone around you! LIVE WITH IT.

 

[DON`T TREAD ON ME]

which right is that? The right to tell others how to live?
Ah yes! I have the *** damned right to breath 78% nitrogen 21% oxygen and 1% argon!
If someone farts in my vicinity of public area I share with others I want the government to use force to stop them!

I am so damn sick of these self righteous slavers! Hello! Someone smoking on the same street as you or the same building as you (assume decent ventilation) does not adversely affect you!
I know it stinks. I don't smoke. And the stink annoys me also. But get this through your head. You do not have the right to control everyone around you! LIVE WITH IT.

Very well put, I am an ex smoker, and ex statist.

 

[bc.cruiser]

Came in because the thread title seemed interesting. Reading just this page, I realized what I'm allergic to. Bye for now.

 

[Logan 5]

Without reading all 8,000 pages and 10,000,000 responses...here's my view-

I've been rolling this through my head now for a few weeks. As a business owner I feel we have a right to set our own rules for our private enterprises. But the courts have ruled otherwise.

Yes and no. You have the right to protect you, your business, your business assets and your employees. You cannot, however, pass rules for customers that infringe on their civil rights as defined under federal (and state) civil rights statutes.

I view our issue of being one about rights, not guns. I place it on equal footing with speech, press, religion, etc.

So think about this. A pastry business was approached to make a cake for a gay wedding. They refused on religious grounds. They were sued. The court fined them and told them they HAD TO honor all requests.

Having a gay wedding is not a Constitutional right, nor is being gay a protect class when it comes to discrimination. So ask yourself this. If someone walked into that cake shop and said, "Hold on, let me pray to Allah about which cake to get", and then said a quick quiet prayer, could they have been thrown out for praying? Could there have been a sign outside that said 'No praying allowed'? How about, "No politics spoken in our store"? You get my point. What if they kicked anyone out wearing a turbine or burka?

This is legal, requiring customers to not carry, concealed or open. The customer can always leave their guns in their car, but they cannot leave their race, color, creed, religion, gender or disability in their car. And technically, I suppose you can restrict the other civil rights too, provided that those exhibiting those rights are do so in a manner that is deliterious to your business. For example, a handful of muslims can come into your coffee shop, buy some coffee & donuts and start their morning prayer, unless what they are doing is preventing you from performing your normal business functions. If other customers do not like it, that's a coin toss if it's actionable by you or not. I suppose you can always tell them you don't mind if they are muslim, just don't interfere in your business function and don't tick off the other customers. That might give you a legal justification to ask them to stop or leave, but it's a grey area really.

Would those be legitimate cases of discrimination and would they be discriminating if they refused to serve them or allow them in for that matter? If it is discrimination then why aren't WE being discriminated against or violated when we're not allowed in certain businesses?

Not really. It is a right a business has.

I'm just trying to attack this from the PC crowd's perspective, but only sort of. I guess anyone can trespass anyone for any reason, but if that's true then why couldn't the cake makers trespass the gay wedding folks?

A gay cake versus a "heterosexual" cake...no difference. A cake is still a cake. It's only a matter of personal choice that really affects no one. The cake people don't have to watch them have gay sex. The folks are just buying a cake, and that's it. Likewise with religion. You can tell folks to keep their religion at home, but do not discriminate against anyone because of their choice in denominations or faiths. A sign saying "no proselytizing" would likely suffice. If they wanna pray, fine. Do so quietly. But that's another grey area. You can say "no politics spoken in our store", because that is not a protected right. Last I knew you can be fired for having political views different than your boss'. As for a turban, no. In fact there was a fella (in Wyoming, I think) that is Sikh and he sued over being discriminated over his turban as it was religious (particularly a "dastar"). As for a burqa, unless it hides their face, it is unlikely that you can say no burqas.

All of this is my opinion and speculation (unless otherwise noted) so if anything I think you may be better off talking to a lawyer. If you don't want a lawyer, there's a bunch of folks at www.laborlawtalk.com that can advise you for free.

HTH

 

[papa bear]

just a couple of replies

Without reading all 8,000 pages and 10,000,000 responses...here's my view-


Yes and no. You have the right to protect you, your business, your business assets and your employees. You cannot, however, pass rules for customers that infringe on their civil rights as defined under federal (and state) civil rights statutes.

Agreed, that is one thing that should be decided by people. that bearing arms is a civil right

This is legal, requiring customers to not carry, concealed or open. The customer can always leave their guns in their car, but they cannot leave their race, color, creed, religion, gender or disability in their car. And technically, I suppose you can restrict the other civil rights too, provided that those exhibiting those rights are do so in a manner that is deliterious to your business. For example, a handful of muslims can come into your coffee shop, buy some coffee & donuts and start their morning prayer, unless what they are doing is preventing you from performing your normal business functions. If other customers do not like it, that's a coin toss if it's actionable by you or not. I suppose you can always tell them you don't mind if they are muslim, just don't interfere in your business function and don't tick off the other customers. That might give you a legal justification to ask them to stop or leave, but it's a grey area really.

the thing about leaving your gun in your car, aside from the dangers of it. you still have the Right to bare it. even with the firearm you are not hurting the business at all. if the business is still open to the public, then they should still respect people's right's.


Not really. It is a right a business has.

not really the business does not have the Right. they are allowed by law to discriminate against people's civil Rights


A gay cake versus a "heterosexual" cake...no difference. A cake is still a cake. It's only a matter of personal choice that really affects no one. The cake people don't have to watch them have gay sex. The folks are just buying a cake, and that's it. Likewise with religion. You can tell folks to keep their religion at home, but do not discriminate against anyone because of their choice in denominations or faiths. A sign saying "no proselytizing" would likely suffice. If they wanna pray, fine. Do so quietly. But that's another grey area. You can say "no politics spoken in our store", because that is not a protected right. Last I knew you can be fired for having political views different than your boss'. As for a turban, no. In fact there was a fella (in Wyoming, I think) that is Sikh and he sued over being discriminated over his turban as it was religious (particularly a "dastar"). As for a burqa, unless it hides their face, it is unlikely that you can say no burqas.

this is a sticky point. you can also say to them to leave their religion in the car. but as far as the cake is concerned. it is a little like slave labor. where you are forcing someone to do something against their will. this could be said for carry, but you are not making the proprietor do anything

All of this is my opinion and speculation (unless otherwise noted) so if anything I think you may be better off talking to a lawyer. If you don't want a lawyer, there's a bunch of folks at www.laborlawtalk.com that can advise you for free.

Thank you for your opinion

HTH