Arts Beats and Eats

[PDinDetroit]

Ok... please bear with me since I am totally uneducated on what the MLCC can.. and cannot... do.

Are liquor licenses given to "establishments" by defining square footage/addresses or are they given to an individual by name? If they are given to a person by name and/or a person/persons are specifically named on the license then....

If the liquor license is issued to a named person(s) would not the MLCC by declaring public property a "licensed establishment" be, in effect, making public property now private property by issuing a license to an "establishment" that includes public streets?

Hey... I could be all wet on this question but if I don't ask I'll never know the answer... and googling didn't help one bit for that one.

Here are the references that are applicable:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/FINAL-_Retail_Guide_2009_WEB_304923_7.pdf

From this Guide, I would believe that ABE is a Special License. See page 6.

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-436-1111

See (11) for the legal definition of Special License.

http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=43601001&Dpt=LG&RngHigh=

The above link are the MLCC Rules.

NO WHERE IN ANY OF THE LAWS/MLCC RULES CAN I FIND THE AUTHORITY TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

1. Allow Alcohol to be possessed and consumed on Public Streets/Sidewalks in Violation of Royal Oak City Ordinance 278-35 (Disorderly Conduct).

2. Allow Minors Under 17 to be in a place where alcohol is sold and consumed without Direct Parental Supervision (MCL 750.141). The fair is not being billed as an Adult Event/Venue.

3. Allow NON-CPL Holders to be prohibited from possession, carry, and transport of firearms on Public Streets/Sidewalks for any lawful purpose according to MCL 750.234d (h).

 

[DanM]

I found this about beer festivals, not sure if it would apply to ABE though:

436.1526 Beer festival; issuance of special license; limitation; buying directly from licensed brewpub; "beer festival" defined. . . .

This would not apply to ABE. As Venator points out, ABE is not "a)".

ABE is also not "b)" (an event having for its primary purpose the showcasing of beer and its production) nor does it fit the definition of "beer festival" given in section 4.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Please see new ABE Thread started:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?79612-Arts-Beats-and-Eats-Liquor-License

 

[G22]

This is what I will send. Feel free to use or modify. If we can get hundreds of people sending emails that may help them to stop this nonsense.

Dear ABE sponsor:

Mr. Witz the promoter of this festival has started a petition asking the state legislators to infringe upon gun owners, the US 2nd Amendment, as well as the state constitution to ban firearms in public places. http://www.artsbeatseats.com/?q=node/32

I find his action deplorable and as a sponsor I urge you to contact the promoter and demand he remove the petition immediately.

Gun owners make up about 80,000,000 people in the US and Michigan alone has almost 300,000 concealed pistol holders, plus countless others that keep and bear arms. This represents a large market demographic.

Starbucks recently decided to follow state law and support the right to bear arms. Just months after Starbucks announced that they would allow lawful carry of handguns their sale jumped 7%. Several major corporations also follow state law in regards to bearing arms in their store. In this down market I’m sure you would welcome an increase in sales.

Gun owners are loyal customers and will patronize those businesses that support all our rights. Conversely they will boycott and encourage others to boycott businesses that infringe upon our rights. They have websites that list anti-gun business for all to see and they do shop where their rights are welcome.

If ABE festival continues to be anti-gun, I and millions of others will no longer support your products. So contact them immediately and let them know where you stand on this issue.

Thank you.
Brian Jeffs


http://www.ford.com/owner-services/c...t/contact-ford;
http://www.citizensbanking.com/contactUs.aspx?id=624;
http://anheuser-busch.com/ContactAgeVerification.html;
hotel-info@sagchip.org hotel-info@sagchip.org;
http://cr.pepsi.com/usen/pepsiusen.cfm?time=85833869;
http://www.vinceandjoes.com/contacts.php;
http://www.comcast.com/customers/feedback/default.cspx;
http://localization.att.com/loc/cont...type=contactus;
rdarmanin@itctransco.com; lbeller@itctransco.com;
http://www.radisson.com/customerservice/contactus.do;
http://www.meijer.com/Customer_Service.cms;
http://www.gardenfreshsalsa.com/html/makecontact.html;
http://www.renewalbyandersen.com/rba...s/default.aspx;
http://www.beringer.com/index.cfm?me...arketingURL=1&;
http://www.sanderscandy.com/index.ph...age=contact_us;
http://www.abcwarehouse.com/abc_ware...bc_contact.asp;
http://www.snappyeats.com/emailus.aspx;

Brian, May I have your permission to post your letter over at MGO?
And I also wanted to start a new post here so this info is not buried.

Let me know. Thanks

 

[Bikenut]

Would there be a way to discover if a person who was driving drunk/was drunk and was arrested for DUI and/or involved in a traffic collision had been attending Arts Beats and Eats?

Could be interesting to have a statistic that alcohol being available at a festival sponsored by FORD contributed to "x" amount of drunk driving/alcohol involved traffic collisions over the course of said festival. An irresponsible attitude could be inferred because alcohol was not restricted to "establishments" but was encouraged within the entire festival.

Really bad PR for FORD.............

To expand on my own quoted post:

When the entire festival is open as a place that serves alcohol under a liquor license then FORD motor company, by sponsoring this festival, is in essence condoning drinking. Not only that but it may be contributing to subsequent drunk driving by patrons who attended the festival.

I think MADD would not like that at all.

Now... since FORD is a sponsor of that event I'm sure they have input as to where alcohol can be served/consumed and it could be just as any other festival... in designated "beer tent" type areas.. and those areas only.

Doing so would insulate FORD motor company from being viewed as encouraging drinking and the implied encouragement of drunk driving from those who took advantage of FORD's encouragement.

I will send a letter forthwith addressing those points to FORD.

Edited to add:

Letter sent @ 2:35pm. I encourage more folks to do the same.

 

[stainless1911]

If we can carry because the festival is on public streets, then why are they allowing people to walk around drinking in those same public streets?

 

[PDinDetroit]

To expand on my own quoted post:

When the entire festival is open as a place that serves alcohol under a liquor license then FORD motor company, by sponsoring this festival, is in essence condoning drinking. Not only that but it may be contributing to subsequent drunk driving by patrons who attended the festival.

I think MADD would not like that at all.

Now... since FORD is a sponsor of that event I'm sure they have input as to where alcohol can be served/consumed and it could be just as any other festival... in designated "beer tent" type areas.. and those areas only.

Doing so would insulate FORD motor company from being viewed as encouraging drinking and the implied encouragement of drunk driving from those who took advantage of FORD's encouragement.

I will send a letter forthwith addressing those points to FORD.

Yes. The following is In My Opinion Only.

The Ford Arts, Beats, and Eats Festival - an Open Carry Alcohol Zone where alcohol flows in the Public Streets and people drive home afterwards. A Family-Friendly Event where our children may be watching and learning to be the next generation of drunks.

Consider the following equations (Guesstimates):

Multi-Block City Area = 5 blocks x 3 Blocks.

400,000 Persons over 4 Days = 100,000 Persons per Day.
10% of Persons Attending Drink Alcohol = 10,000 Persons Under the Influence.
5% of Persons Drinking Alcohol Drive Home Under the Influence = 500 Drunk Drivers.

 

[stainless1911]

Yes. The following is In My Opinion Only.

The Ford Arts, Beats, and Eats Festival - an Open Carry Alcohol Zone where alcohol flows in the Public Streets and people drive home afterwards. A Family-Friendly Event where our children may be watching and learning to be the next generation of drunks.

Consider the following equations (Guesstimates):

Multi-Block City Area = 5 blocks x 3 Blocks.

400,000 Persons over 4 Days = 100,000 Persons per Day.
10% of Persons Attending Drink Alcohol = 10,000 Persons Under the Influence.
5% of Persons Drinking Alcohol Drive Home Under the Influence = 500 Drunk Drivers.

Outstanding post sir. Perhaps it would be better to call it arts beats and drunks. Or it would make more sense to prohibit alcohol altogether.

I would equate a DUI to a negligent discharge. Somehow I dont think there will be any gunfire at all, but DUI is unavoidable. Promoting alcohol, and prohibiting firearms makes no sense at all.

 

[scot623]

Speaking for myself...I am not against alcohol consumption. I enjoy a beer or two on occasion(in the right venue, a few more!). I do not look down on those who like to drink. My problem is when the sale and consumption of alcohol on PUBLIC property effectively strips a person(no CPL) of their 2A rights!!! This is even more egregious when were are talking public street and sidewalks encompassing residences and businesses!!! I am not advocating for a dry event. A limited area for alcohol consumption is reasonable, but it can not encompass city streets and sidewalks. Use a city parking lot, problem solved!

In regards to Ford and alcohol sales, let's not forget alcohol flows in huge quantities at Ford Field 9 times a year at Lions games. 55,000 fans, 10% drunk, 10% of those drive home=550 people per week. Sounds really low doesn't it? They are fully aware of statistics. I doubt they'll care about this angle.

 

[Venator]

Brian, May I have your permission to post your letter over at MGO?
And I also wanted to start a new post here so this info is not buried.

Let me know. Thanks

I posted it in the politics thread. But you can post it anywhere you want including other pro-gun sites.

 

[detroit_fan]

Whats with all the alcohol bashing, since when did having a drink or two in public become such a bad thing, as long as your not driving(or carrying). Some of you sound jut like antis, "what about the children". I believe the children will be just fine as long they are educated in in responsible alcohol consumption, the same we we would argue guns around children are fine as long as they are taught proper gun safety.

The anger should not be at the event for having alcohol available, it should be with the law that prevents you from exercising your rights just because alcohol is being consumed/sold. Seems like the anger would be better put towards changing the OC rights to match those of a CPL so people can carry in places with alcohol licenses.

 

[scot623]

Whats with all the alcohol bashing, since when did having a drink or two in public become such a bad thing, as long as your not driving(or carrying). Some of you sound jut like antis, "what about the children". I believe the children will be just fine as long they are educated in in responsible alcohol consumption, the same we we would argue guns around children are fine as long as they are taught proper gun safety.

The anger should not be at the event for having alcohol available, it should be with the law that prevents you from exercising your rights just because alcohol is being consumed/sold. Seems like the anger would be better put towards changing the OC rights to match those of a CPL so people can carry in places with alcohol licenses.

I stated as such a few posts earlier. I'd be willing to bet most on this board agree the root problem isn't the alcohol per se. It is the liquor license causing non-cpl holders to lose their 2A rights. As far as the "what about the children!", I feel it is just a point to show the hypocrisy of the anti-gun crowd using the old worn out adage "what about the children!" to bash guns. It is a valid point showing alcohol being more dangerous than guns, but I doubt this will be a position the pro-gun crowd takes on nationally. IMOP.

 

[stainless1911]

I was just trying to show the hypocrisy at play here, not so much that people shouldn't drink. I think that alcohol in moderation is a healthy thing.

 

[Bikenut]

I'm wondering....

Since Arts Beats & Eats has a petition to effect change in Michigan gun laws on it's official facebook page and on it's official website that affect the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and Article 1 sec. 6 of the Michigan Constituion...........

Would that qualify Arts Beats & Eats Festival as a political activist group? What laws, both Federal and State, apply to political activist groups?

Anyone have any input?

 

[eastmeyers]

Who is going?

 

[stainless1911]

timothy?