Best 1911...

[massltca]

imported post

My first carry gun was a Springfield Armory mil spec. Then I moved on to a Para LTC. Those would be my vote, both have been reliable and accurate for me. I'm kind of a purist, I don't care for the 1911's with external extractors or full length guide rods.

 

[DreQo]

imported post

massltca wrote:

My first carry gun was a Springfield Armory mil spec. Then I moved on to a Para LTC. Those would be my vote, both have been reliable and accurate for me. I'm kind of a purist, I don't care for the 1911's with external extractors or full length guide rods.

If the 1911 works so well to begin with, why do manufacturers add the external extractors and full length guide rods in the first place? What benefits do they add? What, if any, are the draw backs of these features? In other words, why would someone prefer a 1911 without them?

 

[massltca]

imported post

DreQo wrote:

massltca wrote:

My first carry gun was a Springfield Armory mil spec. Then I moved on to a Para LTC. Those would be my vote, both have been reliable and accurate for me. I'm kind of a purist, I don't care for the 1911's with external extractors or full length guide rods.

If the 1911 works so well to begin with, why do manufacturers add the external extractors and full length guide rods in the first place? What benefits do they add? What, if any, are the draw backs of these features? In other words, why would someone prefer a 1911 without them?

I think the external extractor and full length guide rod are solutions in search of a problem. My Springfield fires and functions just fine without the benefit of a full length guide rod and it's easier to fieldstrip. That's why I prefer the original design, you can disassemble it without tools. Whereas my LTC requires a bushing wrench to fieldstrip and the bushing is so tight I have to drive it out of the slide with a rubber mallet. Some people say a full length guide rod prevents the recoil spring from kinking, but personally I don't think it makes a difference. External extractors are easier to make so that's probably the motivation for that.

 

[DreQo]

imported post

That's pretty much what I figured. So the full length guide rod doesn't consistently improve reliability or performance? That would be a pain to require a tool to disassemble. The external extractor doesn't really seem like a problem though.

 

[.40 Cal]

imported post

The external extractor is the stupidest idea any pistol maker could have added to the 1911 platform. It alters the pressure on the casing, increasing the chances for a FTE. Kimber had to redesign their pistols due this problem, and S&W refuse to admit its shortcomings. The full length guide rod is a clever piece of marketing resulting from surplus amounts of FLGR's left after producing 1911's with bull barrels (which don't have bushings, thereby necessitating the FLGR). Some people likethe fact that they add weight to the front of the pistol, which in theory controls muzzle flip and return to point of aim. Whatever. The 1911 has been out there for over 100 years (don't let the 1911 fool you). John Moses Browning hit it out of the park.

 

[massltca]

imported post

DreQo wrote:

That's pretty much what I figured. So the full length guide rod doesn't consistently improve reliability or performance? That would be a pain to require a tool to disassemble. The external extractor doesn't really seem like a problem though.

I haven't noticed any difference in function. For awhile I had a two piece guide rod in my Springfield, but it kept loosening under recoil so I took it out. The guide rod in my LTC is one piece and works fine so I left it alone.

 

[tnolan2008]

imported post

What's the best one to get?

The one you like the most. I've had every brand except S&W and Taurus 1911's and like to get one of each sometime.

Personally I carry, what use to be a Spring Field Armory. Mil-Spec, 1911A1. Now it doesn't look anything like a $450 to $500 something Mil-Spec. I've made a couple of modifications.

Mag Well
Enlarge Mag Release Button
Kimber Rail Kit for Surefire M-3
M-3 Light
Hammer
Extended safety Left and right
Extended Slide release left and right
Grip safety
21lbs spring kit
Heavy Spring well housing with heavier spring
Throated barrel
Safety job
Trigger job and Trigger
Disconnected Grip Saftey
Novac night Sites front and rear

The list goes on. Now I did all of this my self. Parts were cheap and the labor is whatever you put in to it.

I've put probably 5000 rounds through it, made a couple of adjustments and now it's just the way I like it.

Basically get what's comfortable and right for you. Just my opinion.

 

[G9M&P15]

imported post

As this seems to be turning into a defacto 1911 discussion thread, I figured I'd go ahead and use this rather than staring up a new, redundant one.

I'm also in the market for a 1911. $800 sounds about right for me, as well. I shot a friend's Kimber, which I absolutely adored. But the more I read, the more I seem to hear that Kimbers are somewhat erratic in their quality. I'm looking for an open carry weapon.

Springfield and S&W are what interest me the most right now. I like a nice chunk of weight in my hand. S&W have served me well with my AR-15.

Are the differences really all just personal preference to the feel of the weapon? Or do certain manufacturers excel at certain aspects?

 

[tnolan2008]

imported post

I've noticed a considerable difference in weight between, say, a Kimber compared to my Spring Field. The kimber is much lighter weight than mine. It blew my mind how light and controllable the Kimber was. If you want everything there is to have in a 1911 out of the box, Kimber is it.

Again, this is just my opinion.

 

[WhiteFeather]

imported post

I have no problem with this turning into a defacto thread!

This was the result of my testing and researching. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum5/10246.html

My advice to anyone looking to get a new 1911 is ask if you may, or the owner/clerk will take it apart so that you may see the internal parts. It doesn't have to be down to the frame but the slide should come off and you should be able to inspect and feel all of the parts that come apart with no more than a bushing wrench.

I did this when I bought mine and that is one of the sole reasons I choose S&W. So I'll put that out there as a see for yourself.

S&W1911's are made in the US right up yonder here in MA. S&W have been making parts for all of the top 1911 manufacturers for a very long time because of the forges and machine tooling available to them. So it was a no brainer to get into the highly competitive market of 1911's.

S&W made the decision to use an external extractor for reliability sake. Most 1911's if they have an issue, can be traced back to the extractor. Also S&W had been using an external extractor on many of their other pistols so for them it meant saving money and time on R&D. JMB himself gave up on the internal extractor on his later models because of the reliability issue. Most modern pistols today utilize the external extractor for that same reason. For what its worth my S&W ejects the rounds in a very consistant and controlled manor. If I ever have an issue I will be sure to post it and eat my every word.

Depending on what you want S&W makes a 1911 for almost any setup you want. If you want avery light yet full size 1911 you can get what I did and enjoy the pleasures of 32.oz weight unloaded.

If you do not want the rail and will settle for aComander legnth you can still get the PD model ineither a FrontSite custom or their standard Comander legnth SW1911PD model both of which weight even less!

They have target models and stainless and whatever you want.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15709&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708

I do hope you only take this as advice and go out and get the 1911 you want. But read my write up and take a look for yourself.

 

[DreQo]

imported post

WhiteFeather, you make a lot of good points about the S&W 1911's. After a brief glimpse at the product list you linked to, all of those are well over $1000. :? Does S&W have any lower priced, bear-bones type options?

 

[massltca]

imported post

.40 Cal wrote:

The external extractor is the stupidest idea any pistol maker could have added to the 1911 platform. It alters the pressure on the casing, increasing the chances for a FTE. Kimber had to redesign their pistols due this problem, and S&W refuse to admit its shortcomings. The full length guide rod is a clever piece of marketing resulting from surplus amounts of FLGR's left after producing 1911's with bull barrels (which don't have bushings, thereby necessitating the FLGR). Some people likethe fact that they add weight to the front of the pistol, which in theory controls muzzle flip and return to point of aim. Whatever. The 1911 has been out there for over 100 years (don't let the 1911 fool you). John Moses Browning hit it out of the park.

I agree, the original design is the best. They started having probems when they started messing with the design. However I really like the PXT extractor on my Para. There is nothing wrong with the original, but the PXT seems like a well thought out and reliable design. It definitely doesn't hurt reliable function and looks a hell of a lot better than the external extractor.

 

[massltca]

imported post

Just curious, why would S&W need to do R&D on an internal extractor? The internal extractor has been around for 100 years and should be a simple drop in part.

 

[WhiteFeather]

imported post

To my knowledge S&W does not make a pistol with an internal extractor. I stand ready to be corrected but all of their models come with an external extractor. They could have bought loads of internal extractors if they choose and sold many 1911's in that fashion. However they choose to put their thumb print on the models.

If you want to put the extractor debate to rest one must realize that even JMB gave up on the internal extractor on his later models. (Browning HP ect...) The majority of modern pistols are made with an external extractor. These provide the utmost in reliability and result in less problems than the internal extractor.

I am aware that I keep repeating myself on the issue but it is because I myself questioned the need/want of an external extractor. But the truth about them is obscured by biased opinions and mass hysteria.

Colt was the first company to make the 1911 this bought them a name to ride on for a long time. People will buy only Colt's for this reason, many of those people will tell you that the pistol needed tuning but still is a great pistol. If you talk to the right people and read many, many reviews you will find that most Colt's need extensive work after the purchase to get them fire in any consistent manor. Kimber is a company who built a reputation on destroying the Glock contracts in L.A. and selling them on the .45 (Not so much the 1911). However people have a very polar opinion of Kimber, either they are hated or loved.

The reason I bring up these two companies is because they are the heart and heat of the argument. Most Colts have one main issue, and that is the internal extractor. Once that is tuned by a gunsmith all is well and they are one of the best examples of a 1911 there is. Kimber fooled around with using an external extractor for their pistols. However they had not invested the time or money to produceanything that worked and so they have since given up and gone with the other.

The reputation built by Colt is what makes people feel that only internal extractor belong on a 1911. And the hatred by some for Kimber created a mass Internet hysteria about external extractors just to prove for some that Kimber was flawed.

Buy into and believe what you will but just about every modern pistol built for either a military or police/agency contract has an external extractor.

over $1000. :? Does S&W have any lower priced, bear-bones type options?

Smith and Wesson are in the Market to compete with the higher end makers so you will be hard pressed to find one under $600 used. The MSRP is always much higher than actual cost depending on region. I have found the low end models around here for $710, Gunbroker and sooner or later the gun shows will start to turn up used models and they may be had for a steal.

Good luck and stay safe!

 

[curtm1911]

imported post

I am a new guy here, but an old hand at 1911's. I have owned Colt's Springfields, (own two now, a full size 1911 NM Serial numberand a G.I. Champion) and also own a Taurus PT1911. The full size Springfield flattens one side of the case mouth slightly, the Champion doesn't, and the Taurus doesn't either. Now for the review. I like the Springfields, but must confess, I Love the Taurus. It rides in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster, yes Kydex seems to wear the finish, but it is a tool (someone else said that here) but after many, many rounds, no problems. It drops any magizine I use smartly. Accurate. I like the straight eight Heine sights (mine are nite sites) and it cost me all of $647 out the door. It is my primary carry gun. I am a lefty too, so the ambi safety STANDARD is sweet too. I shoot at least twice a month, 100+ rounds and it just runs and runs. trigger is nice, about 4lbs. breaks clean and recoil is no problem. My girlfriend can shoot it very well, and loves the "Green Dots" on the sights. For the money, you can't beat it. I've shot Kimbers, they seemed to have issues, not so the Taurus. I bet my life to it and my life is VERY VALUABLE TO ME. Good Gun, Good Price, plenty of "bells and Whistles" for those who want them and it just feels right in my hand. BTW, I replaced the plastic grips with checkered wood and it looks good and shoots sweet. Also, if you have a Full Length Guide Rod, you can use a .45 case to depress the plug and turn the bushingif you do not have a bushing wrench handy, just be sure to not let the spring fly out when using the case.

 

[Tomahawk]

imported post

+1 on the Taurus PT1911. All the above observations apply to mine as well, with only a couple fo things to note:

Con/Pro: Mine doesn't have night sites, but the Straight-8's are still great.

Con: My ambi safety came apart one day at the range; the two halves wouldn't stay together, even after the on-site gunsmith reassembled it. I sent it back to Taurus for a replacement and they have been very slow to respond, so I give Taurus negative points for that. In the meantime I installed an off-the-shelf Wilson Combat standard safety and all is well. I think I will keep it even after Taurus sends me a new ambi, which I will just store in the original box with the instructions for possible re-sale someday.

Pros: Thisis also my primary carry gun, it shoots very true, feeds very well, the factory Taurus mags have given me no trouble. It also has lots of nice features, the trigger, the hammer, the sloped front and rear slode serrations, the checkering on the backstrap, frontstrap and trigger guard, etc. I had originally planned to replace the factory grips with some nice rosewood, but the stock ones are so thin and comfortable that I think I will just keep them.

 

[soloban]

imported post

P2 wrote:

If you are in the market for a 1911 this would be my recommendation. I use it as my CCW weapon. If you have a good belt and holster it makes carrying that hunk of iron better.

I'm gonna second this one. I just picked up a Springfield Loaded 1911-A1 in Stainless. My only suggestion if you get one is to resign the factory mags to range duty and pick up a Wilson Combat 47D magazine (It's a much more reliable mag and you get another round).

I'm still figuring out which holster I want to get for it.

 

[deepdiver]

imported post

soloban wrote:

P2 wrote:

If you are in the market for a 1911 this would be my recommendation. I use it as my CCW weapon. If you have a good belt and holster it makes carrying that hunk of iron better.

I'm gonna second this one. I just picked up a Springfield Loaded 1911-A1 in Stainless. My only suggestion if you get one is to resign the factory mags to range duty and pick up a Wilson Combat 47D magazine (It's a much more reliable mag and you get another round).

I'm still figuring out which holster I want to get for it.

Beautiful. I handled one of those at a recent gun show. Loved it. If I had been in a position to buy it on the spot I would have.

 

[Linkenrw2005]

imported post

I would have to agree with the Springfield Armory Fully Loaded. I used to own one until it was stolen along with my Ruger DC-97. My father is a die hard glock fan and was rather impressed with the Springfield when he shot it. The recoil isn't to bad but I'm a big guy with ape like hands so holding it was pretty easy for me. As far as reliability I never had any stovepipes or mag hang ups. I did switch to a 15 rd extended mag for my OCin VA but those were stolen as well. Any way I digressed. IMOI would go with the Springfield its gotthe mostbang for the buck and if you look long enough you might find a new one for 400-600. I got mine fromcarters country in Pasadena Texas for 475 out the door new about 3 years ago though.

R/

Ralph

 

[.40 Cal]

imported post

soloban wrote:

P2 wrote:

If you are in the market for a 1911 this would be my recommendation. I use it as my CCW weapon. If you have a good belt and holster it makes carrying that hunk of iron better.

I'm gonna second this one. I just picked up a Springfield Loaded 1911-A1 in Stainless. My only suggestion if you get one is to resign the factory mags to range duty and pick up a Wilson Combat 47D magazine (It's a much more reliable mag and you get another round).

I'm still figuring out which holster I want to get for it.

Take a look at Milt-Sparks. I got my Springfield's holster from them and love it.