Boston....was there exigent circumstance?

[Beretta92FSLady]

Having a gun helps with getting innocent young ladies to submit to a cavity search... But I imagine some progressives would think that was OK in order to catch a terrorist.

*YAWN* Been on this topic.

Texas apparently is packed with Progressives. Funny, I thought Texas was a damn Conservative Libertarian State.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Close but not quite. It would be the threat of lethal force. This may still qualify as an assault depending upon the laws of the state in which it occurs, I believe.


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Officer can point their firearm at you with impunity. A Citizen cannot.

 

[palerider116]

Having a gun helps with getting innocent young ladies to submit to a cavity search... But I imagine some progressives would think that was OK in order to catch a terrorist.

Only until their cavities are searched. Then it is a violation of their bodies and government intrusion.

Your cavity = government business.
Their cavities = no trespassing sign posted.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I'm sure there others who would compare the two.

But the point is simple: the man in the bottom picture does not look like any of the suspects. Why is he stopped and identified? Is that an unreasonable question to ask?

We have identified suspects so let's identify everyone to make sure it isn't a disguise.

Yep. Sound.

In the one video posted two women were taken out of the house at gunpoint and fondled(searched) when the police knew full well that the suspects were male. But I am sure BL is perfectly OK with that.

[video=youtube;x9D8mz83ht8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x9D8mz83ht8[/video]
Innocent man stripped naked and arrested during lockdown, but of course it is OK because of terrorism...

 

[crazydude6030]

I believe the police had every right and every good reason to do what they did.

The suspect had killed 4 people and wounded 170.

He had detonated bombs and used rifles to gun down police officers.

He had thrown bombs out of a car while driving and his accomplice had a suicide vest.

Does someone like this pose an immediate danger to the public ? If you say no then you are an idiot !!!

Slippery slop giving up freedom for security. That's why people are asking very legit questions about it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

View attachment 10292

That's about the stupidest thing I've seen all day. you literally win a prize, where can I mail it too?

oh don't read this part...

but apparently they had cars in nazi germany too, and hospitals, and roads, and even trees. damn nazi spies are growing everywhere in my town!

 

[JoeSparky]

Officer can point their firearm at you with impunity. A Citizen cannot.

So an officer is not a citizen?


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[stealthyeliminator]

Officer can point their firearm at you with impunity. A Citizen cannot.

I think the whole point of this is that we're beyond debating the legality of the issues. As the perception of the people becomes that the law has separated from what's right, legality becomes less and less relevant to the average citizen. People will look at what the police are doing and think, "that is not right." When that happens, and they see no justice being provided by the law (people say "they have impunity, nothing you can do about it"), they will care less and less about the law, and less and less about those that they perceive as oppressors.

 

[SouthernBoy]

I have no doubt that a large number of firearms were probably confiscated.

Think so? I also wondered about this... certainly didn't hear anything reported on the news. I also wondered what might happen if someone answered their door with a handgun holstered or a rifle in hand. Would he be shot right out or thrown hard to the floor, knees in back and arrested immediately?

There go our civil rights and this is exactly what the terrorists would hope would take place.

 

[SouthernBoy]

Oddd thing about sheep, they put up no resistance when led to slaughter...

Remind you of something? How about the Jews being lead from the gettos of Warsaw to the trains taking them to Treblinka? Or being lead to a ditch to be shot where they stand.

 

[BB62]

Does anyone know the actual area "cordoned off"? (iow bounded by what streets?_

I've read that the address where "Suspect #2" was captured (67 Franklin Street, I think) was 1 1/2 blocks outside the cordoned off area, and that police had ended their blockade at the time the call was received by the boat-owning homeowner.

 

[KBCraig]

And yet they did not harm the 7-11 clerk, or the person they jacked the car from, or the boat owner.

Point of clarification: Boston PD quietly backed away from this one and admits the suspects had nothing to do with the convenience story robbery. It's no longer part of the timeline.

It's understandable that you didn't hear about it, since it was a relatively minor part of the story. Plus, it's hard to keep track of all the "facts" that turned out not to be.

 

[marshaul]

The two muslim terrorists who planted two bombs that killed 3 people and injured 170 others and blew the legs off of about 10 people.

So is there a body count which justifies throwing the BoR out the window permanently?

Is there a magic number when you agree to hand over your guns?

 

[marshaul]

View attachment 10292

That's about the stupidest thing I've seen all day. you literally win a prize, where can I mail it too?

oh don't read this part...

but apparently they had cars in nazi germany too, and hospitals, and roads, and even trees. damn nazi spies are growing everywhere in my town!

Irrelevant comment alert.

I found the picture rather poignant. Yes, Nazi Germany had trees. But America didn't have "Ihre papiere bitte!" stormtroopers until recently. That's what you're supposed to be seeing. Of course, police sycophant that you are, I'm sure that photo is totally normal to you.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Irrelevant comment alert.

I found the picture rather poignant. Yes, Nazi Germany had trees. But America didn't have "Ihre papiere bitte!" stormtroopers until recently. That's what you're supposed to be seeing. Of course, police sycophant that you are, I'm sure that photo is totally normal to you.

It's a completely false comparison. Just because the nazis did something similar does not mean we are nazi Germany, literally it's to the point where logicians have identified "as hitler would have done" as its own class of logical fallacy. If we're talking hitlers soldiers as part of a routine police state (which would not be unreasonable during times of war) versus a single operation looking for suspects in a single incident. It's not the same context

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Close but not quite. It would be the threat of lethal force. This may still qualify as an assault depending upon the laws of the state in which it occurs, I believe.


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It is lethal force, if they shoot you it is then something else, they are trying to "force" you to comply and they use the threat of death for noncompliance.....lethal force...

It's a completely false comparison. Just because the nazis did something similar does not mean we are nazi Germany, literally it's to the point where logicians have identified "as hitler would have done" as its own class of logical fallacy. If we're talking hitlers soldiers as part of a routine police state (which would not be unreasonable during times of war) versus a single operation looking for suspects in a single incident. It's not the same context

Eric you are rationalizing.

The point is that the actions of the government and their street warriors are the same. This happens when you ignore fundamental rights and the constitutional restrictions upon said government.

Our country is not NAZI Germany they are acting in many cases much worse.

 

[marshaul]

It's a completely false comparison. Just because the nazis did something similar does not mean we are nazi Germany, literally it's to the point where logicians have identified "as hitler would have done" as its own class of logical fallacy.

Actually, it's not a logical fallacy to merely compare something to Nazi Germany. The comparison may be apt, or it may not be – but a comparison in and of itself is not fallacious (although what one argues based on the comparison may be).

"Godwin's law" is a trite and popular construction, but it didn't magically define new forms of illogic.

If we're talking hitlers soldiers as part of a routine police state (which would not be unreasonable during times of war) versus a single operation looking for suspects in a single incident. It's not the same context

lol. Do you really think Nazi Germany was like that all day, every day? The Nazis did their best to portray an image of domestic stability and governmental efficiency. But then we do that here, too.

The Nazis were classic statists. Sure, they'd parade out their stormtroopers at the slightest excuse. But then we do that here, too.

Frankly, I think infowars is for paranoid nut cases. However, a police state is a police state. And we have a police state. To deny this one must be inculcated in the culture of blind love for the state, and complacent apathy towards the behavior of police.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It is lethal force, if they shoot you it is then something else, they are trying to "force" you to comply and they use the threat of death for noncompliance.....lethal force...



Eric you are rationalizing.

The point is that the actions of the government and their street warriors are the same. This happens when you ignore fundamental rights and the constitutional restrictions upon said government.

Our country is not NAZI Germany they are acting in many cases much worse.

Yeah, looks to me like contemporary america is much, much worse then nazi germany.....

care to say that again?

 

[Citizen]

Yeah, looks to me like contemporary america is much, much worse then nazi germany.....

Hahhahahahahahaahahaha!!

Just because the Nazi's murdered millions (the worst), suddenly SVG's comment is wrong?

Notice how our college boy had to shift from SVGs comparative "in many cases much worse" to a superlative (photos of murdered millions).

EMN couldn't even argue the same point, so he had to go and change it. Hahahahahahahahaha!!

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Actually, it's not a logical fallacy to merely compare something to Nazi Germany. The comparison may be apt, or it may not be – but a comparison in and of itself is not fallacious (although what one argues based on the comparison may be).

"Godwin's law" is a trite and popular construction, but it didn't magically define new forms of illogic.

Godwin's law is just that given enough time any online discussion can draw comparisons to the nazis (which it seems we're proving pretty well)
I was actually thinking of Leo Strauss's Reducto ad Hitlerum a subset of association fallacy.

lol. Do you really think Nazi Germany was like that all day, every day? The Nazis did their best to portray an image of domestic stability and governmental efficiency. But then we do that here, too.

The Nazis were classic statists. Sure, they'd parade out their stormtroopers at the slightest excuse. But then we do that here, too.

Frankly, I think infowars is for paranoid nut cases. However, a police state is a police state. And we have a police state. To deny this one must be inculcated in the culture of blind love for the state, and complacent apathy towards the behavior of police.

well it depends upon your definition of police state. any modern society is going to have police state attributes, it's as simple as that. I like to view it on a sliding type scale of just how repressive the state actually is compared to what it could be.... and I don't think we're that bad.

To that degree security theater is often used, in fact it's very effective. security theatre is not meant to stop crime or certain activity, it's meant to 1) deter low-level offenders and 2) make people feel safe enough to be out in public working and starting businesses and being productive. just the other day I was with a friend in Downtown Seattle, while everyone was tuned in to the evolving manhunt for the boston suspect on friday, police were everywhere in Seattle. we went to the the Russell building (a 40 floor skyscraper with an open air garden on the 17th floor) and there was an SPD officer at the security desk. we saw Seattle police officers on foot at Westlake mall, and pike place market, bicycle officers everwhere in the down town corridor, and king county sheriff's deputies posted in the transit tunnel. normally all these places only have private security at the entrance. Does the city actually think something will happen? of course not! it's all theater to make people feel safe enough to be in town.... and it's very effective at that....