Budget Repair Bill is moving again.

[HandyHamlet]

I thought they passed the bill so people would not loose their jobs?

And isn't part of the bill making it illegal to raid state funds?

 

[phred]

I enjoyed reading your entire post, it was very imformative, thanks.

Now, how has teacher representation been compromised?
The union has been limited to disallow it from negotiating pay increases beyond the rate of inflation. In these tough times, do you think this is unreasonable?

For all practical purposes, there is (as of March 11, 2011) either no union, or there is no contract that can be enforced. Either way, there is no representation.

Most of a Master Contract does not deal with salary or benefits. The negotiated items in Master Contract include language that deals with guidelines which concern grievance procedures and arbitration, probationary period, evaluation, non-renewal and discipline, physical examinations, assignments, transfers, reassignments, leaves(sick, funeral, professional, emergency/personal, unpaid), teacher work day/year, emergency procedures, professional improvement, compensation for Extracurricular Activities, layoff, and adherence to State and Federal regulations. The salary and benefits are also established in the contract. As I have said before, the Master Contracts are a two way street outlining rights and responsibilities of both the school board (i.e.the people) and the teachers.

The Human Resources Dept website in Wausau lists what other government employees earn as well as contract language. The link is provided below for Wausau. Being familiar with teacher contract language, I can see that the language, provisions, and benefits of these other public employee contracts are quite similar
http://www.ci.wausau.wi.us/Departments/HumanResources/DocumentsPolicies.aspx

Even the superintendent of the district has said that the Master Contract provides stability and fairness to all parties involved.

I already said this above:

Believe it or not, the members of teachers unions worked with the local school boards to establish calendars, scheduling, training, evaluation and supervision systems, curriculum, etc because the school boards and sometimes administration had no clue of what was going on in the classroom. Teachers worked with other teachers willingly and cooperatively because there wasn't a competition amongst themselves. They supported each other because they didn't have to fight each other for position.

The contract provides a stability in the system and everybody works together because of that stability.

I don't think that the long term damage done by the monetary changes will have as much effect as the dissolution of the agreed upon "rules of working conditions" that have taken decades of fine tweaking by both sides of the negotiation table. I was there and I know what it took. If you are not involved, a person cannot truly understand the complexity of some of these issues.

Negating the Master Contract throws away all of the mutually agreed upon procedures and undermines the stability and fairness that now exists. Everything becomes "board policy" and the normal volatility of school boards means that long range goals (think K-12 continuity), curriculum, programs, etc also become volatile.

If I was still teaching, I would be thinking,"It's not about money", even though the loss of income would be a hardship. I would be willing, and have done it in the past, to "take one for the gipper". It's much more than that.

I get the feeling that some people think "if I can't have a union represent me, then nobody should have a union represent them either." That's not far from saying, "if I can't own land, then nobody else should own it either."

I think other unionized professions would also articulate similar thoughts about the issue.

If you will excuse me, I want to go outside and practice my shooting skills. Ya never know when some violent person (anti-union or not) wants to take me out.

(This been an after hours tutoring session for the inquisitive brought to you by phred.)

 

[Peacekeeper]

I think that someone has forgotten that it's the consumer(us), that sets the price of goods & services in this nation. Perhaps if you would have been in class that day, instead of protesting something; your naked ineptness wouldn't be showing :banghead:...

Do you mean how consumers set the price of gasoline?

The powerplants in the bill are connected to state owned insitutions ... hospitals, prisons and universities. They supply electricity and heat (steam). It would take a major construction project to get steam elsewhere. Therefore, whoever owned these power plants would have a monopoly on these services supplied to the state institutions. We the taxpayers ... you and me ... would be forced to pay and pay and pay.

So ... is it ok with you that Scott Walker could sell these powerplants to anyone at any price he chooses ... including a major contributor to him like the Koch brothers?

 

[AaronS]

I wonder if the (other) teachers we keep talking about are into gun rights? I just wonder...
If so, I would wonder if any of them voted for Walker?
As far as I can see it, if Walker did not win, we would not see any gun related freedom returned to us for 4 more years...
For a State union worker, it must have been a hard choice. Take a pay/benefit cut, or don't get your gun rights back...
I say your cut was worth it. See, my "pay cut" was a pink slip... You still have a good job. I do wish we could pay you (all) more, but we just can't.

If any still have not looked, I recommend checking some of the pay we are talking about.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33534649.html

 

[Peacekeeper]

I wonder if the (other) teachers we keep talking about are into gun rights? I just wonder...
If so, I would wonder if any of them voted for Walker?
As far as I can see it, if Walker did not win, we would not see any gun related freedom returned to us for 4 more years...
For a State union worker, it must have been a hard choice. Take a pay/benefit cut, or don't get your gun rights back...
I say your cut was worth it. See, my "pay cut" was a pink slip... You still have a good job. I do wish we could pay you (all) more, but we just can't.

If any still have not looked, I recommend checking some of the pay we are talking about.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33534649.html

AaronS,

Sorry to hear of your job loss. My sister in Kenosha will be loosing her job on march 18th. I wish you and yours well in your quest for work.

Many of my coworkers are hunters and target plinkers (I'm not a teacher) however quite a few don't understand gun rights like OC or our quest for constitutional carry. I'm working on getting the word out.

I voted for Walker because of my stand on gun rights. There are other issues too, but they don't need to be discussed here. A few of my coworkers voted for Walker too. It was a hard decision. I feel that I am well compensated for the work I do. And in my situation I can afford to pay more for my healthcare and pension.

Not all state employees make as much money as teachers. Janitors and office workers don't make that much but still work because of the benefits. Some of my coworkers who now work for the state because they were layed off private sector jobs are considering going back to the private sector because they would be paid more ... wage wise and take a chance that they won't need healthcare.

The thing with Walker which bothers me the most is collective bargaining. It involves so much more than wages. It is important to me. Walker did not campaign on taking away collective bargaining rights.

Doyle was the main player in the way of constitutional carry because of his veto power. Maybe other dems will learn from all that is happening now.

 

[anmut]

Sorry phred - I like and respect you but I just looked up the salary of the teacher my son had two years ago in 2nd grade. 71k in salary and 32k in benefits. That's an unnecessary cost to our county tax payers to be paying a second grade teacher over 100k a year for 182 days of work.

I also looked up with the KINDERGARTEN teacher at his school makes - $62,000+ a year SALARY and another $25k in benefits. To teach ABC's, pour juice and delegate nap time. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

In this county I make WAY less than that, still own a nice house, an acre of property, a newer truck and car and my wife has been out of work for almost two years. There is no way you can convince me someone who's job is to teach 2nd graders is worth that much money.

 

[phred]

Sorry phred - I like and respect you but I just looked up the salary of the teacher my son had two years ago in 2nd grade. 71k in salary and 32k in benefits. That's an unnecessary cost to our county tax payers to be paying a second grade teacher over 100k a year for 182 days of work.

I also looked up with the KINDERGARTEN teacher at his school makes - $62,000+ a year SALARY and another $25k in benefits. To teach ABC's, pour juice and delegate nap time. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

In this county I make WAY less than that, still own a nice house, an acre of property, a newer truck and car and my wife has been out of work for almost two years. There is no way you can convince me someone who's job is to teach 2nd graders is worth that much money.

I certainly won't deny you your thoughts. I know an awful lot of people have told me over the years that they could never do all the jobs that a teacher does for any amount of pay. And, some people still think teachers are just expensive babysitters. I will never change their minds. All I know is that I could never work in the lower elementary grades with 25 to 30 snot-nosed little kids running around tattling on someone who just puked in the corner when I am trying to tell them how to be able to read on their own. I just get gaggy when I have to help some little kid, not my own, blow their nose because it's dripping in their mouth. No, I preferred those who looked you in the face and said "F*** Y**, I am not going to pick that up." ("That" meaning the garbage he just threw on the floor in the lunch room.)

For all of my experience and knowledge in the "field", I do not feel qualified nor worthy to assess anybody's worth or value, especially for the job they do.

Also, I don't particularly like my taxes paying the salaries of some of my elected leaders, either. And, they constantly are improving their own "compensation packages". That has got to change.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

Sorry phred - I like and respect you but I just looked up the salary of the teacher my son had two years ago in 2nd grade. 71k in salary and 32k in benefits. That's an unnecessary cost to our county tax payers to be paying a second grade teacher over 100k a year for 182 days of work.

I also looked up with the KINDERGARTEN teacher at his school makes - $62,000+ a year SALARY and another $25k in benefits. To teach ABC's, pour juice and delegate nap time. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

In this county I make WAY less than that, still own a nice house, an acre of property, a newer truck and car and my wife has been out of work for almost two years. There is no way you can convince me someone who's job is to teach 2nd graders is worth that much money.

AGREE BIG TIME ! ok class, I f you have one pencil in this had & one pencil in the other hand....how many pencils do you have ???? OK, someone raise your hand......yes, Timmy........Two ??? YES, TIMMY YOUR RIGHT It's 2 pencils. You get a Goldstar.....YAAAAAAYY !!!! ...for that the tax payers are on the hook for 100K ????!!!!!!! You have got to be FKing kidding me !!!!! I don't think WALKER went far enough All state workers should have been responsible for Paying 75% of their Pension & Health Care...not the laughable 5.8%

This is why our Taxes are so FREEKING High , these FREEKING State workers Get Paid to freekeing Much !!!! it's BullllcRAP !

Raise your hands if you feel you pay entirely too much state/ Federal taxes.... State employee's Put your hands down IT'S YOUR FAULT !

 

[1FASTC4]

Do you mean how consumers set the price of gasoline?

The powerplants in the bill are connected to state owned insitutions ... hospitals, prisons and universities. They supply electricity and heat (steam). It would take a major construction project to get steam elsewhere. Therefore, whoever owned these power plants would have a monopoly on these services supplied to the state institutions. We the taxpayers ... you and me ... would be forced to pay and pay and pay.

So ... is it ok with you that Scott Walker could sell these powerplants to anyone at any price he chooses ... including a major contributor to him like the Koch brothers?

who is going to win the Stanley cup this year? You seem quite sure about the future. amazing you know so much. /sarcasm

Frankly, I don't want the State running anything so if the power plants get sold, I'm all for it.

 

[Peacekeeper]

who is going to win the Stanley cup this year? You seem quite sure about the future. amazing you know so much. /sarcasm

Frankly, I don't want the State running anything so if the power plants get sold, I'm all for it.

Sorry, the Stanley cup isn't part of the budget repair bill. It does sound kind of like a "tool" though!

 

[1FASTC4]

For all practical purposes, there is (as of March 11, 2011) If you will excuse me, I want to go outside and practice my shooting skills. Ya never know when some violent person (anti-union or not) wants to take me out.

(This been an after hours tutoring session for the inquisitive brought to you by phred.)

I might take you out... do you like good BBQ?

from 1999 to 2003 New Mexico teachers didnt have CBA. You know what happened? Not much, really.

In the past, public sector employees made less than their private sector counterparts. They were compensated by having good retirement plans, and health insurance benefits. Nowadays, public sector employees often make more than their private sector counterparts yet the public sector still retains the cushy benefits, at the tax payers expense.Time to even the playing field. Break the unions who bully/cajole their way into such lucrative contracts.

It's reasonable to expect public employees to contribute a comparable share of their income for benefits... comparable to the private sector.

 

[rcav8r]

Just FWIW, how long have those teachers been in the system?

A middle school teacher I had nearly 30 years ago is still there, and he is making 62K plus bennies.

When you consider how high the "average" teacher salary is, then you know there must be a hell of a lot of high paying teacher (non-admin) jobs to offset the low paying "new" or "newer" teacher salaries.