Carrying firearms in Idaho

[josie02av]

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Thank you, that is what I thought. i had a conceal carry in Las Vegas back in the 80's and early 90's until I moved to Idaho. And then I have never gone down and got a permit here. I have learned that most IHP and Sheriff are pretty cool about carrying a gun. They have not bothered me for having mine on.

In Utah they always harrass me as much as possible. Every time I was pulled over in Utah for anything I ended up in jail for suspicion of trafficking drugs. Only because I was driving a nice car and had a 9mm. After spending 51/2 hours in jail in Nephi, they released me with no charges what so ever. I was driving 60 in a 65, when they pulled me over.

So I guess the moral to the story is stay out of Utah.

 

[rpyne]

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josie02av wrote:

Thank you, that is what I thought. i had a conceal carry in Las Vegas back in the 80's and early 90's until I moved to Idaho. And then I have never gone down and got a permit here. I have learned that most IHP and Sheriff are pretty cool about carrying a gun. They have not bothered me for having mine on.

In Utah they always harrass me as much as possible. Every time I was pulled over in Utah for anything I ended up in jail for suspicion of trafficking drugs. Only because I was driving a nice car and had a 9mm. After spending 51/2 hours in jail in Nephi, they released me with no charges what so ever. I was driving 60 in a 65, when they pulled me over.

So I guess the moral to the story is stay out of Utah.

60 in a 65 in a fancy car will get you every time on any interstate south of Utah County unless you are 60+ years old, especially with out of state plates. It is the classic profile of a drug runner. With few exceptions, 5 to 10 over is considered "normal" in Utah.

As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance.

 

[josie02av]

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I do know when I was in Vegas, their gun lwas both OC and Concealed were very open. The only place I could not carry was on Nellis AFB. That has probably changed since 9/11. Cali I have not had any issues yet, but I was a bit more caution whenI am out there.

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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rpyne wrote:

As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance.

How are carry laws less restrictive in Utah? Not meant to be taken argumentatively; I really don't know.

 

[rpyne]

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josie02av wrote:

I do know when I was in Vegas, their gun lwas both OC and Concealed were very open. The only place I could not carry was on Nellis AFB. That has probably changed since 9/11. Cali I have not had any issues yet, but I was a bit more caution whenI am out there.

I haven't researched to find when they took effect, but Nevada has some very restrictive carry laws. You cannot carry in any public building or any "school" from infant day care to university or on any property that has any portion being used for or by any school.

 

[rpyne]

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IndianaBoy79 wrote:

rpyne wrote:

As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance.

How are carry laws less restrictive in Utah? Not meant to be taken argumentatively; I really don't know.

One big one is that concealed firearms permit holders are expressly permitted to carry, open or concealed, on or in ANY public school, Pre-K through University. Basically, the only public places that unlicensed (Utah Unloaded*) OC is not allowed is courts, jails, mental institutions and schools. A permit holder is exempt from the school and unloaded provisions.


*76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


Edit: spelling

 

[josie02av]

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I have another question about open carry. If I am carrying my gun in a holster on my side and am wearing a jacket over it because either it is cold or raining. Is that considered concealed, or is Idaho pretty leaniant on that?

 

[josie02av]

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rpyne wrote:

IndianaBoy79 wrote:

rpyne wrote:

As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance.

How are carry laws less restrictive in Utah? Not meant to be taken argumentatively; I really don't know.

One big one is that concealed firearms permit holders are expressly permitted to carry, open or concealed, on or in ANY public school, Pre-K through University. Basically, the only public places that unlicensed (Utah Unloaded*) OC is not allowed is courts, jails, mental institutions and schools. A permit holder is exempt from the school and unloaded provisions.


*76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


Edit: spelling

So have a loaded clip in the handle but not a shell in the chamber is loaded or unloaded?

 

[American Rattlesnake]

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josie02av wrote:

I have another question about open carry. If I am carrying my gun in a holster on my side and am wearing a jacket over it because either it is cold or raining. Is that considered concealed, or is Idaho pretty leaniant on that?

My understanding is that if the pistol is concealed from common observation, it is legally concealed. That said, I could not find a legislative definition of "concealed" in the Statutes.

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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That doesn't sound less restrictive to me. Idaho does not prohibit open carry at pubic schools either. But then we get into federal law and I'm confused on the issue ATM.

Unloaded? Wow.... I'd never carry an unloaded gun, legal or not.

I would like a law to further clarify our right to carry on college campuses as the State of Idaho and any city within it has no power to regulate open carry in any manner. They simply do not recognize that and will throw you out of school if caught with a gun. As a non-student, you may get thrown off the grounds. Not fun.

I can't think of anywhere really in Idaho law where OC is restricted at all. Only judges have restricted jails and courts, and federal law sometimes tries to override our states sovereignty in this area as well.

Tell ya what...lets line 100 people from Utah on one side of the road, and 100 from Idaho on the other. We'll face each other and draw and see who is restricted in their carry more lol. I have a feeling I can draw faster than you can load and fire.

 

[josie02av]

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Then I am going to stick to my 2nd amendment rights and that is that. I will get a concealed before snow flies this year just to not get in trouble on a technicallity. I don't see if the weapon is in a hoslter on your belt on your side. And you have a coat or vest on for warmth and it covers your gun how it is concealed. You are not purposely trying to hide it. You are obeying the laws by keeping it in a holster, on you side and no round in the chamber. I will never carry a gun without a clip in it. I don't mind not havinga round in the chamber, since that takes less the 1/2 a second.

 

[American Rattlesnake]

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josie02av wrote:

I don't see if the weapon is in a hoslter on your belt on your side. And you have a coat or vest on for warmth and it covers your gun how it is concealed.

If it is in a holster on your side and covered by a coat or vest, then it is hidden from view. Thus, it is concealed.

As far as having no round in the chamber, that's a Utah restriction, not an Idaho law.

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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What state do you live in? Nothin on your name to show it, making it harder to give you any advice.

Having it under your coat is concealed. Not every word (most of them in fact) is defined in Idaho law. Words have meaning and the courts generally take words for what they mean unless their is some kind of dispute or it is a "grey" word that can be taken in many ways.

Concealed, by very definition, means to keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered. Your intent is not the question...by putting on a coat or vest you know that you are now keeping it from being seen, found, or observed. You can say you were trying to keep warm all you want to the courts, you've still concealed your weapon.

Here in Idaho the law is silent on how you have to carry. Would a shotgun need a holster? Probably not. A handgun could be taped to your forehead, but I wouldn't recommend it. They'd probably have you committed! In Idaho at least, you can load it up, chamber included.

 

[josie02av]

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Sorry I will fix my profile. I live in Chubbuck, Idaho.

 

[rpyne]

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IndianaBoy79 wrote:

That doesn't sound less restrictive to me. Idaho does not prohibit open carry at pubic schools either. But then we get into federal law and I'm confused on the issue ATM.

I suggest you read:

8-3302C. PROHIBITED CONDUCT. Any person obtaining a license under the
provisions of section 18-3302, Idaho Code, shall not:
(1) Carry a concealed weapon in a courthouse, juvenile detention facility
or jail, public or private school, except as provided in subsection (4)(f) of
section 18-3302D, Idaho Code; or
(2) Provide information on the application for a permit to carry a
concealed weapon knowing the same to be untrue. Any person violating the
provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

18-3302D. POSSESSING WEAPONS OR FIREARMS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.
(1) (a) It shall be unlawful and is a misdemeanor for any person to
possess a firearm or other deadly or dangerous weapon while on the
property of a school or in those portions of any building, stadium or
other structure on school grounds which, at the time of the violation,
were being used for an activity sponsored by or through a school in this
state or while riding school provided transportation.
(b) The provisions of this section regarding the possession of a firearm
or other deadly or dangerous weapon on school property shall also apply to
students of schools while attending or participating in any school
sponsored activity, program or event regardless of location.
(2) Definitions. As used in this section:
(a) "Deadly or dangerous weapon" means any weapon as defined in 18 U.S.C.
section 930;
(b) "Firearm" means any firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921;
(c) "Minor" means a person under the age of eighteen (18) years;
(d) "Possess" means to bring an object, or to cause it to be brought,
onto the property of a public or private elementary or secondary school,
or onto a vehicle being used for school provided transportation, or to
exercise dominion and control over an object located anywhere on such
property or vehicle. For purposes of subsection (1)(b) of this section,
"possess" shall also mean to bring an object onto the site of a school
sponsored activity, program or event, regardless of location, or to
exercise dominion and control over an object located anywhere on such a
site;
(e) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
(3) Right to search students or minors. For purposes of enforcing the
provisions of this section, employees of a school district shall have the
right to search all students or minors, including their belongings and
lockers, that are reasonably believed to be in violation of the provisions of
this section, or applicable school rule or district policy, regarding the
possessing of a firearm or other deadly or dangerous weapon.
(4) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following
persons:
(a) A peace officer;
(b) A person who lawfully possesses a firearm or deadly or dangerous
weapon as an appropriate part of a program, an event, activity or other
circumstance approved by the board of trustees or governing board;
(c) A person or persons complying with the provisions of section 19-202A,
Idaho Code;
(d) Any adult over eighteen (18) years of age and not enrolled in a
public or private elementary or secondary school who has lawful possession
of a firearm or other deadly or dangerous weapon, secured and locked in
his vehicle in an unobtrusive, nonthreatening manner;
(e) A person who lawfully possesses a firearm or other deadly or
dangerous weapon in a private vehicle while delivering minor children,
students or school employees to and from school or a school activity;
(f) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-3302C, Idaho Code, a
person or an employee of the school or school district who is authorized
to carry a firearm with the permission of the board of trustees of the
school district or the governing board.
(5) Penalties. Persons who are found guilty of violating the provisions
of this section may be sentenced to a jail term of not more than one (1) year or fined an amount not in excess of one thousand dollars ($1,000) or both. If a violator is a student and under the age of eighteen (18) years, the court may place the violator on probation and suspend the juvenile detention or fine or both as long as the violator is enrolled in a program of study recognized by the court that, upon successful completion, will grant the violator a general equivalency diploma (GED) or a high school diploma or other educational program authorized by the court. Upon successful completion of the terms imposed by the court, the court shall discharge the offender from serving the remainder of the sentence. If the violator does not complete, is suspended from, or otherwise withdraws from the program of study imposed by the court, the court, upon receiving such information, shall order the violator to commence serving the sentence provided for in this section.

Unloaded? Wow.... I'd never carry an unloaded gun, legal or not.

Did you read the definition of Utah Unloaded? Most states would consider it loaded. It is basically just not one in the pipe.

I would like a law to further clarify our right to carry on college campuses as the State of Idaho and any city within it has no power to regulate open carry in any manner. They simply do not recognize that and will throw you out of school if caught with a gun. As a non-student, you may get thrown off the grounds. Not fun.

Again, read the law,

18-3302J. PREEMPTION OF FIREARMS REGULATION. (1) The legislature finds
that uniform laws regulating firearms are necessary to protect the individual citizen's right to bear arms guaranteed by amendment 2 of the United States Constitution and section 11, article I of the constitution of the state of Idaho. It is the legislature's intent to wholly occupy the field of firearms regulation within this state.
(2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city,
agency, board or any other political subdivision of this state may adopt or enforce any law, rule, regulation, or ordinance which regulates in any manner the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, transportation, carrying or storage of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition.
(3) A county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the
discharge of firearms within its boundaries. Ordinances adopted under this
subsection may not apply to or affect:
(a) A person discharging a firearm in the lawful defense of person or
persons or property;
(b) A person discharging a firearm in the course of lawful hunting;
(c) A landowner and guests of the landowner discharging a firearm, when
the discharge will not endanger persons or property;
(d) A person lawfully discharging a firearm on a sport shooting range as
defined in section 55-2604, Idaho Code; or
(e) A person discharging a firearm in the course of target shooting on
public land if the discharge will not endanger persons or property.
(4) A city may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the
discharge of firearms within its boundaries. Ordinances adopted under this
subsection may not apply to or affect:
(a) A person discharging a firearm in the lawful defense of person or
persons or property; or
(b) A person lawfully discharging a firearm on a sport shooting range as
defined in section 55-2604, Idaho Code.
(5) This section shall not be construed to affect:
(a) The authority of the department of fish and game to make rules or
regulations concerning the management of any wildlife of this state, as
set forth in section 36-104, Idaho Code;
(b) The authority of counties and cities to regulate the location and
construction of sport shooting ranges, subject to the limitations
contained in chapter 26, title 55, Idaho Code; and
(c) The authority of the board of regents of the university of Idaho,
the boards of trustees of the state colleges and universities, the board
of professional-technical education and the boards of trustees of each of
the community colleges established under chapter 21, title 33, Idaho Code,
to regulate in matters relating to firearms.
(6) The provisions of this section are hereby declared to be severable.
And if any provision is declared invalid for any reason, such declaration
shall not affect the validity of the remaining portions of this section.

There are a number of "little" places all over in Idaho law that I don't have the time to dig up for you, however, one new one was passed just this year requiring ALL firearms to be unloaded, locked in a secure container and separate from any ammunition in ANY day care facility, including home operated day care.

Tell ya what...lets line 100 people from Utah on one side of the road, and 100 from Idaho on the other. We'll face each other and draw and see who is restricted in their carry more lol. I have a feeling I can draw faster than you can load and fire.

Racking the slide during he draw only adds about 1/4 second to the draw and fire time, but that really doesn't matter because Utah permit holders can carry fully loaded, cocked and locked, open or concealed.

BTW, I am an Idaho native and lived there the first 25 years of my life. I still spend a considerable amount of time in Idaho and have been hassled by Idaho LE far more than I have by Utah LE.

 

[josie02av]

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Since my gun does not have any safeties, I always carry it iwthout a round in the chamber. I would hate to have it fire by accident for any reason. I believe safety is always first and foremost.

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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The first part you quote (3302c) only concerns conceal carry. Show me the same prohibiting open carry.

I was unfamiliar with the specifics of 3302D and had mistakenly remembered "concealed" in there as well. In either case, it is in violation of the Idaho Constitution Article 1 section 11, which gives no power to the state or local government to regulate open carry, only concealed.

It is also in violation of Brickey vis Idaho.

http://www.guncite.com/court/state/70p609.html

( In re Brickey, 8 Idaho 597, 70 P. 609, 101 Am. St. Rep. 215, 1 Ann. Cas. 55 (1902))
BEARING ARMS--CONSTITUTIONAL LAW--CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.

1. The act of the territorial legislature approved February 4, 1889, which prohibits private persons from carrying deadly weapons within the limits or confines of any city, town, or village in Idaho, contravenes the provisions of the second amendment to the federal constitution and the provisions of section 11, art. 1, of the constitution of Idaho, and is void.

2. While it is undoubtedly within the power of the legislature to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, and such regulation is a proper exercise of police power, yet the legislature does not possess the power to prohibit the carrying of firearms, as the right to do so is guarantied to the citizen both by our federal and state constitutions.

Read the whole case, it's interesting.

The preemption bill you quote doesn't apply at all. The legislature can only cede power to a political subdivision that it has itself. That law was based on the authority of Article 1 Section 11 giving the legislature the power to regulate concealed carry only. As far as I know.

3302D is in violation of our highest law and therefor null and void. I'm not arguing that we might get harnessed, thrown out, or arrested, but it is clearly unlawful and needs challenging.

Idaho can only regulate concealed carry, period. The preemption law was written to help enforce the rights we already have. Unfortunately, it didn't do a good enough job of doing so. As it draws its authority on Article 1, Section 11, it is reasonable to believe the part allowing colleges to "regulate in the area of firearms) only applies to concealed.

I again volunteer for the arrest. Who's got some cash?


There are LOTS of county laws and other local laws (I've got a list of 63 right now) that violate the preemption bill as well. As Saint found out at the library, and we found out at the fair, those laws can no longer be enforced even though they are on the books. I look at the above quoted laws in the same way; again, I don't argue the danger of it. We're speaking law here, not what cops or local authorities will do. The State of Idaho simply has no power ceded by WE the people to regulate anything concerning open carry. Our Supreme Court agrees.

 

[rpyne]

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IndianaBoy79 wrote:

Who's got some cash?

If you don't have the means to fight the battle, you have already lost.

 

[josie02av]

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I just want to thank you all. Being new to this site, I have learned more in the last hour or so of browsing this site then I have learned ever. I have sent some links to friends of mine.

Again thank you all from a newbie to this site.

 

[IndianaBoy79]

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rpyne wrote:

IndianaBoy79 wrote:

Who's got some cash?

If you don't have the means to fight the battle, you have already lost.

LOL I have the means to fight the battle; just not on that particular front yet.

Thank you for clarifying what 3302D for me. Honest mistake.

Be careful applying 3302C to OC though, as that clearly states concealed.

This is a perfect time to remind everyone to check their own facts against the law and make their own mind up about things. Never trust me or anyone else to give you the correct advice. Even when we study things in depth, it can get confusing and there are different interpretations to different laws. Review the law for yourself and consult and attorney before you take any questionable actions that may put you in jeopardy.