Welcome to OCDO Penbwy.I am the emergency contact for my niece. She attends kindergarten that is inside a church. Is it legal to carry if I would have to pick her up? From what I can tell, the church has pre-k and kindergarten during the day.
Welcome to OCDO.I am the emergency contact for my niece. She attends kindergarten that is inside a church. Is it legal to carry if I would have to pick her up? From what I can tell, the church has pre-k and kindergarten during the day.
Why would anyone who values life and self defense take their children to a disarmed victim zone?
While I understand your sentiment, the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 puts education facilities in that category. So, at least in Virginia, there isn't a way around it without legislative change.
Home schooling works, but isn't a viable option for all.
While I understand your sentiment, the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 puts education facilities in that category. So, at least in Virginia, there isn't a way around it without legislative change.
I believe the distinction lies in the fact that you must remain in your vehicle with the firearm. The school prohibition/exemption doesn't let you leave a loaded firearm unattended in your vehicle.There is also the two-part "Secured Container" and "mutatis mutandis" exemptions from § 18.2-308.1, but to the best of my knowledge, that has not yet been vetted in a court case.
In short, § 18.2-308.1 is the code that prohibits carry on school grounds. It references and incorporates the same list of exemptions found in § 18.2-308.
"The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section."
The "Secured Container" exemption from § 18.2-308 provides this:
"10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;"
When you add this all up, it would appear that storage in a secured container is exempted from the general prohibition on school grounds. The difference between this and the direction given earlier is that you would not have to unload the gun, which is not only quicker, but also much safer.
As I said, some are leery of this, and I don't know that it has been tried in court at this point. It would be an interesting case to watch out for, but of course the only way it would show up in court would be if someone is arrested for doing it.
TFred
This is a case where two laws do not mesh cleanly. The secured container exemption doesn't address leaving the car. If you exit your car and you leave a gun in the secured container, then you are obviously no longer carrying a concealed handgun (in fact you are no longer carrying a gun AT ALL), and the secured container exemption specifically covers NOT utilizing the CHP coverage. But the exemption that is codified in the school grounds prohibition specifically applies ONLY to CHP holders.I believe the distinction lies in the fact that you must remain in your vehicle with the firearm. The school prohibition/exemption doesn't let you leave a loaded firearm unattended in your vehicle.
Sorry, TFred, but you're wrong on this one. The "secured container" provision does require that you be in the vehicle. From what you posted:This is a case where two laws do not mesh cleanly. The secured container exemption doesn't address leaving the car. If you exit your car and you leave a gun in the secured container, then you are obviously no longer carrying a concealed handgun (in fact you are no longer carrying a gun AT ALL), and the secured container exemption specifically covers NOT utilizing the CHP coverage. But the exemption that is codified in the school grounds prohibition specifically applies ONLY to CHP holders.
In my mind, the secured container provision is a broader exemption and would outweigh the "stay in the car" exemption. The school grounds section does specifically incorporate the secured container exemption, if there are two exemptions and one is broader than the other, what reason would the state have to impose the more restrictive exemption over the less restrictive exemption?
It's certainly likely that some enthusiastic LEO will arrest someone for this some day, and I just hope they have a defense attorney of "User" caliber to make sure they set a good precedent.
TFred
That provision only applies "while in a personal, private motor vehicle". Once you step out of the vehicle, you are no longer "in" the vehicle, and so that provision no longer applies. At that point, the unloaded provision takes effect:10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;
Note that this provision does not limit itself to while the person is in the motor vehicle, but specifies that the firearm (or knife) must be in the vehicle in a closed container or firearms rack.(vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle;
On a related note: Was the old AG opinion stating that self defense supports justifiable reason to carry in church ever codified?
Sorry, TFred, but you're wrong on this one. The "secured container" provision does require that you be in the vehicle. From what you posted:That provision only applies "while in a personal, private motor vehicle". Once you step out of the vehicle, you are no longer "in" the vehicle, and so that provision no longer applies. At that point, the unloaded provision takes effect:Note that this provision does not limit itself to while the person is in the motor vehicle, but specifies that the firearm (or knife) must be in the vehicle in a closed container or firearms rack.
It's a one-word difference, but it makes all the difference.
Yes, but we have been discussing the exemptions to that provision, listed in both 18.2-308.1 and 18.2-308 (as referenced in 18.2-308.1).§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1
How does one possess a gun that is inside a car, when one is outside the car?
I have no cite off the top of my head, but I seem to recall the definition of possess for guns requires being on or about one's person, or with immediate access. No?
TFred