CC at its finest

[g21sfpistol]

Sorry, none of the things you reference contain any statistics regarding the per capita rates of crime-deterrence generated by CCers vs OCers.

You fail.

and all the crime you and your friends say you deter by OCing has no statistical number to it. you just SAY it does. most will agree when a carry law gets passed in a area the crime rate drops. guess what, most if not all are CCing.

 

[g21sfpistol]

I see a pattern...

Every one of your threads gets locked...


I predict...

3

2

1

..........

thats because the truth can be painful. and when people can't argue against something because they know the other person is right they would rather just shut the conversation down. thats after insulting and making false accusations about the person.

 

[marshaul]

if all you have done is talk with others and think i advise you take a weapons retention class and see how much situational awareness you really have and how much of a ninja you really are.

Let's see you draw "faster than someone with an OC holster" on an assailant who already has the drop on you and see how much of a ninja you really are.

(Hint: ninjas are secretive, like CCers. Yet again you fail impressively.)

and all the crime you and your friends say you deter by OCing has no statistical number to it. you just SAY it does. most will agree when a carry law gets passed in a area the crime rate drops. guess what, most if not all are CCing.

It's evident that thought is supremely difficult for you, but I'll attempt to explain one more time.

Yes, CC is overwhelmingly more popular (at present) than is OC. This fact does not imply that CC is better, as that would constitute an appeal to popularity (a fallacy).

Yes, more crimes are probably stopped by CC than by OC, but this is only because CC is so much more common than is OC.

So, your reasoning is, "CC stops more crime because CC is more popular. Therefore CC is better." This reduces to "CC is better because it is more popular".

This is, again, a fallacy.

Again, you fail.

 

[Primus]

Cite?

Not sure I've seen someone "formally" request this of you yet. So here goes.

You stated "the numbers games works. CCers stop way more crimes and put more bad guys in jail".

So now please back up said supposed facts with some sort of cite. We take that kind if thing pretty serious around here. Part of what makes this a great forum.

I'll wait patiently.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

yet none of you have given any cites on any statements you have made. you want my cites? i would assume that you read or watch anything SD related? the armed citizen section of the NRA magazine, local news stations, and national news stations are my cites. you read them every time you read about a SD shooting. this thread started with a cite and i reposted it with a video.

Easy with the "none of you". I haven't even made ANY claims that require a cite.

You may be a little rusty or confused of the cite things works. I can understand because I was before I came to this site and saw the correct way.

You made a DIRECT assertion. "CCers stop way more crimes and put more bad guys I'm jail."

So I called for you cite your "source" that would confirm this. A cite is usually something like a website, news article, video, study, etc. Etc.

Saying "read about self defense situations and you'll see" is NOT a cite. First, your just punting the ball and demanding I find the source FOR you. Negative my friend. Second, I do happen to follow along with self defense situations. It happens to be apart of my lively hood. I've yet to read ANYTHING ANYWHERE that says CC puts guys in jail or STOP any crime other then shooting the bad guy. Finally.... stating "local news stations are my cites" is nor a cite. Please provide a direct link to a story or any article that expressly backs up your claim. I'm sincerely trying to be nice and helpful about this. If you want to stick around here this is a good way to start. If you can't back up a claim then at least admit that and recant if need be.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I'll offer a refutation of your premise that "ccrs put more in jail". I know a lot of guys who happen to OC everyday for minimum 8hrs a day. They happen to make quite a few arrests on any given day and even occasionally "stop" real bad guys. They happen to literally and physically place them in jail. At least the absolute very vast majority of them are all carrying the same way. With their polymer or steel gun in a level III retention holster on a funny looking bat belt that has other gadgets on them.

So if you can somehow say that you put more guys in jail then I do or have with me OCing and you CCing then I'll be impressed.



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[g21sfpistol]

Let's see you draw "faster than someone with an OC holster" on an assailant who already has the drop on you and see how much of a ninja you really are.

(Hint: ninjas are secretive, like CCers. Yet again you fail impressively.)



It's evident that thought is supremely difficult for you, but I'll attempt to explain one more time.

Yes, CC is overwhelmingly more popular (at present) than is OC. This fact does not imply that CC is better, as that would constitute an appeal to popularity (a fallacy).

Yes, more crimes are probably stopped by CC than by OC, but this is only because CC is so much more common than is OC.

So, your reasoning is, "CC stops more crime because CC is more popular. Therefore CC is better." This reduces to "CC is better because it is more popular".

This is, again, a fallacy.

Again, you fail.

AND have you ever though why CC is more popular? maybe because people believe its the better advantage. of course you have thought of that, but in your own mind you make yourself believe your ways are always better. so you fail again. ill again bust out the training question that people like to avoid. have you taken a weapons retention class? do you continually train what you learned in those classes if you have taken one? i bet you haven't. i don't OC and i have taken them. better yet get a blue gun and a few of your friends. start off with one person then work up to 2 or 3 trying to take your gun. don't go easy either. then get back to me on how easy it was to take on one or more attackers trying to take your gun. boy id love to try it with some of you.

 

[OC for ME]

and all the crime you and your friends say you deter by OCing has no statistical number to it. you just SAY it does. most will agree when a carry law gets passed in a area the crime rate drops. guess what, most if not all are CCing.

It is obvious that every OCer is a deterrent to crimes perpetrated against them. Except for one dubiuos incident, there does not seem to be any reports of any crimes against a OCer to have been reported. But, it is the media we are relying upon for our data is it not?

So, lacking any other data or lack there of....ouch.....OCers seem to have deterred every crime that may have been focused on them.

Our, you and I, logic seems to have answered the question.....at this point.

 

[OC for ME]

AND have you ever though why CC is more popular? maybe because people believe its the better advantage. of course you have thought of that, but in your own mind you make yourself believe your ways are always better. so you fail again. ill again bust out the training question that people like to avoid. have you taken a weapons retention class? do you continually train what you learned in those classes if you have taken one? i bet you haven't. i don't OC and i have taken them. better yet get a blue gun and a few of your friends. start off with one person then work up to 2 or 3 trying to take your gun. don't go easy either. then get back to me on how easy it was to take on one or more attackers trying to take your gun. boy id love to try it with some of you.

Actually, cops are likely the prime motivator for folks to CC. Cops recommend CC over OC because OC scares people. Obviously OC only scares a tiny fraction of our fellow citizens. Second, cops motivate folks to CC because cops tend to hassle OCers, less frequently in most locations, but the perceived anti-OC sentiment held by LE is real to those who would like to OC but are scared to do so.

Anyway. Further interaction with you is nothing but troll feeding and we a have a informal rule against such conduct around here.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Easy with the "none of you". I haven't even made ANY claims that require a cite.

You may be a little rusty or confused of the cite things works. I can understand because I was before I came to this site and saw the correct way.

You made a DIRECT assertion. "CCers stop way more crimes and put more bad guys I'm jail."

So I called for you cite your "source" that would confirm this. A cite is usually something like a website, news article, video, study, etc. Etc.

Saying "read about self defense situations and you'll see" is NOT a cite. First, your just punting the ball and demanding I find the source FOR you. Negative my friend. Second, I do happen to follow along with self defense situations. It happens to be apart of my lively hood. I've yet to read ANYTHING ANYWHERE that says CC puts guys in jail or STOP any crime other then shooting the bad guy. Finally.... stating "local news stations are my cites" is nor a cite. Please provide a direct link to a story or any article that expressly backs up your claim. I'm sincerely trying to be nice and helpful about this. If you want to stick around here this is a good way to start. If you can't back up a claim then at least admit that and recant if need be.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I'll offer a refutation of your premise that "ccrs put more in jail". I know a lot of guys who happen to OC everyday for minimum 8hrs a day. They happen to make quite a few arrests on any given day and even occasionally "stop" real bad guys. They happen to literally and physically place them in jail. At least the absolute very vast majority of them are all carrying the same way. With their polymer or steel gun in a level III retention holster on a funny looking bat belt that has other gadgets on them.

So if you can somehow say that you put more guys in jail then I do or have with me OCing and you CCing then I'll be impressed.



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none of your friends on here have made any cites in any of the threads i have posted on so for one I'm not going to cite anything. i made and assumption that you keep up on SD shooting in the news. if you don't then do your own research on SD shootings. if i had the time, which i don't, i could post page after page of cites. i would guess 100 pages or more. people wanna claim OC prevents crime and not have a cite for it then i won't cite anything either. well here actually

http://www.washingtontimes.com/staff/emily-miller/

check her out. she has probably done more research then anyone else. thats a good start. that more than what i got from anyone here. thats a good place to start. I'm not going to hold your hand though. who do you know that OCs for 8 hours a day? cops? i thought we couldn't use cops as a OC example? if thats the case could i use cases where cops had their gun stolen from them and killled with their own gun?

 

[marshaul]

AND have you ever though why CC is more popular?

Irrelevant. Popularity is a terrible indicator of quality, and appealing to it is a fallacy.

Anyway, I have one word for you: government.

Get back to us when you understand what a real argument is, and are prepared to make one.

 

[marshaul]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/staff/emily-miller/

check her out. she has probably done more research then anyone else. thats a good start.

Give her a decade of experience or so and she might qualify as not-a-FUDD.

In the meantime, she's an pinionated noob who hasn't graduated beyond living in DC. She's not even in the minor leagues yet.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Actually, cops are likely the prime motivator for folks to CC. Cops recommend CC over OC because OC scares people. Obviously OC only scares a tiny fraction of our fellow citizens. Second, cops motivate folks to CC because cops tend to hassle OCers, less frequently in most locations, but the perceived anti-OC sentiment held by LE is real to those who would like to OC but are scared to do so.

Anyway. Further interaction with you is nothing but troll feeding and we a have a informal rule against such conduct around here.

oh but you just wanted to get the last word in right? they want you to CC because its a waste of their time to come and check you. again you are living under this blanket that if you OC you are good and won't a victim period. so from a mentality stand point you are already behind the curve and believe you don't have to train as much because 1. "you are deterring crime as we speak" and 2. OCing makes you draw faster. which you couldn't be further from the truth. your gunna choke the moment you have to draw under stress because you think that by OCing you just going to draw fast naturally with little training. and if i told you the micheal jordon "pump up" shoes made you jump higher i bet you would believe that as well.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Irrelevant. Popularity is a terrible indicator of quality, and appealing to it is a fallacy.

Anyway, I have one word for you: government.

Get back to us when you understand what a real argument is, and are prepared to make one.

again avoiding the retention training question. i like it. i have been making a arguments just like everyone else.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Give her a decade of experience or so and she might qualify as not-a-FUDD.

In the meantime, she's an pinionated noob who hasn't graduated beyond living in DC. She's not even in the minor leagues yet.

that just proves you have no idea what you are talking about and haven't read or watch some of her stuff. go get some weapons retention training will ya. THEN we will talk.

 

[marshaul]

again avoiding the retention training question. i like it. i have been making a arguments just like everyone else.

The so-called "retention question" (actually a puerile challenge) is little more than a red herring, and I won't chase it.

If I were to, I would expect documentation and video evidence of your extensive training in "drawing faster than someone with an OC holster" on an assailant who already has you at gun point.

I'm sure you'll be forthcoming with that.

 

[marshaul]

2. OCing makes you draw faster. which you couldn't be further from the truth. your gunna choke the moment you have to draw under stress because you think that by OCing you just going to draw fast naturally with little training. and if i told you the micheal jordon "pump up" shoes made you jump higher i bet you would believe that as well.

Absolute rubbish. You're making assumptions utterly without basis.

You assume, for instance, that OCers are more complacent in their draw practice, simply because they have an inherent advantage.

By your logic, you are in desperate need of situational awareness training. Since CCers have a slight advantage in that regard, it's unquestionable that you have become complacent and let your training lapse. I expect immediate documentation of your efforts to rectify this shortcoming, if you wish to retain an iota of credibility.

 

[Primus]

again avoiding the retention training question. i like it. i have been making a arguments just like everyone else.

I've had lots of retention training. To include guys hitting me with sticks. So what's your point?

Its called pros and cons. Good OC holsters offer some level of retention. The gun is out in the open. Hence the retention.

Concealed holsters generally don't have retention. But they are hidden and not in the open so harsher to grab.

See how that works my friend? Its crazy huh...

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[OC for ME]

oh but you just wanted to get the last word in right? they want you to CC because its a waste of their time to come and check you. again you are living under this blanket that if you OC you are good and won't a victim period. so from a mentality stand point you are already behind the curve and believe you don't have to train as much because 1. "you are deterring crime as we speak" and 2. OCing makes you draw faster. which you couldn't be further from the truth. your gunna choke the moment you have to draw under stress because you think that by OCing you just going to draw fast naturally with little training. and if i told you the micheal jordon "pump up" shoes made you jump higher i bet you would believe that as well.

Found a few crumbs in my pocket

Never did bring up draw speeds, non sequitur.

Never mentioned or questioned training levels, not even yours. Your zeal for CC can only mean, for me anyway, that you train to some significant degree and I would not challenge you on your skill level without first hand observation. Non sequitur.

1. Yes, I am deterring crime as we speak. If I were standing next to you, you gain the benefit of a criminal not targeting me as he would also not target you, who appears to the casual observer as unarmed and likely vulnerable.

2. Covered the draw thing already.

Sorry, all out of troll food.

 

[WalkingWolf]

The more he posts the more it makes me think he is "Runaway"~~PO'd because some OC have made fun of him.

But he brings it on himself...

 

[Have Gun - Will Carry]

Absolute rubbish. You're making assumptions utterly without basis.

You assume, for instance, that OCers are more complacent in their draw practice, simply because they have an inherent advantage.

By your logic, you are in desperate need of situational awareness training. Since CCers have a slight advantage in that regard, it's unquestionable that you have become complacent and let your training lapse. I expect immediate documentation of your efforts to rectify this shortcoming, if you wish to retain an iota of credibility.

Now, wait just a second here, Marshaul - you, of all people, should know that in order for someone to retain it, they must have had some degree of credibility to begin with. We can all plainly see that that's not the case with this poster...

Some have mentioned the frequency of his threads being locked, and the inevitability of this thread succumbing to the same fate. Personally, I feel his threads bring a refreshing degree of comedy to an otherwise very serious forum, and I look forward to more unsupported drivel being buried under an avalanche of truth! I must admit, it brightens my day every time I read his wishful thinking that defies all logic, because I know it will be followed by others calmly posting common-sense rebuttals.

 

[marshaul]

Personally, I feel his threads bring a refreshing degree of comedy to an otherwise very serious forum, and I look forward to more unsupported drivel being buried under an avalanche of truth!

It's hard to disagree with you. I find this poster incredibly hilarious.

Heck, he has the honor of being the first individual to end up in my sig line. Hard to beat that! :lol: