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City of Seattle Wants your opinion

adamsesq

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, Oregon, USA
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Richard6218 wrote:
Triple Tap wrote:
Update...The city of Seattle has responded to my RFIA. They are now trying to see how they can get me the information as the way they set this up on the website was that each entry generated an email. Its not in a database format.

There are over 1900 emails from this survey.:shock:

Is that all we could generate?
:cool:

If I can get all the emails electronically, I am going to try to put them into a spread sheet. I just don't know if I can get it done before the meeting for some statisics for us.
Well, mythree certainly helped the stats. :D


The problem is that of your three personalities one problem voted for, one against and nobody could understand what the third was trying to say? :D

-adamsesq
 

diesel556

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Richard6218 wrote:
Hey, will you STOP PICKING ON ME. I might get upset and fly off the handle :cry:
We don't want that! Stay on the handle, please! :celebrate

adamsesq wrote
The problem is that of your three personalities one problem voted for, one against and nobody could understand what the third was trying to say? :D

-adamsesq
Oh no! :lol:
 

Citizen

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diesel556 wrote:
Richard6218 wrote:
Well, mythree certainly helped the stats. :D
We've been over this. The personalities in a multiple personality disorder do not count as real people.

:lol:

In the case of VAopencarry, we're still debating whether even his real personality counts. :):p

(Oh, I know I'm going to pay for that one.)

(There went any chance of a discount at that gunstore.)
 

Richard6218

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Citizen wrote:
diesel556 wrote:
Richard6218 wrote:
Well, mythree certainly helped the stats. :D
We've been over this. The personalities in a multiple personality disorder do not count as real people.

:lol:

In the case of VAopencarry, we're still debating whether even his real personality counts. :):p

(Oh, I know I'm going to pay for that one.)

(There went any chance of a discount at that gunstore.)
What's my real personality anyway? If I can't figure it out how the hellcan you?
 

heresolong

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To address two of the items in your introduction:

1) "State law allows private property owners to prohibit the presence of firearms on their property. As a property owner, the City has rules..."

You are not a private property owner. All property owned by the city is held in trust for the public. Firearms laws are also specifically preempted by the RCW and the Legislature, therefore any additional restrictions that you impose are illegal.

2) "Under its policy, the City would lease, rent or permit the use of city property only to those parties that prohibit all persons, except law enforcement officers, from possessing firearms on leased city premises."

This is also preempted by the RCW. By requiring others to ban firearms, you are essentially banning the firearms yourselves.

Your actions are outrageous. You know full well that any ban by the City would be illegal and in contravention of state preemption. All you are doing here is wasting taxpayers' money that could be used for infrastructure improvement, services, or tax reduction. All this to prevent law abiding gun owners, that segment of society that is demonstrably MORE law abiding than the average citizen, from exercising a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the State of Washington.
 

Citizen

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Richard6218 wrote:
What's my real personality anyway? If I can't figure it out how the hellcan you?

Sorry, I thought you guys were playing around.

No offense intended.
 

Richard6218

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Citizen wrote:
Richard6218 wrote:
What's my real personality anyway? If I can't figure it out how the hellcan you?

Sorry, I thought you guys were playing around.

No offense intended.
We were playing around. I was poking fun at myself about not figuring out my "real personality". Sorry if I spoiled the fun. ;)
 

Citizen

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Richard6218 wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Richard6218 wrote:
What's my real personality anyway? If I can't figure it out how the hellcan you?

Sorry, I thought you guys were playing around.

No offense intended.
We were playing around. I was poking fun at myself about not figuring out my "real personality". Sorry if I spoiled the fun. ;)
Consider it unspoiled again! :)
 

shad0wfax

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Spokane, Washington, USA
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Here is my response. Hopefully the City of Seattle will pay attention to it, despite me being a resident of a different City.



The Washington State Constitution, in Section 24 is very clear on carrying firearms.

"SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired[...]"

The Revised Code of Washington (RCW 9.41.290) is very clear on Cities passing firearm legislation that is more resrictive than state law:

"Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

Furthermore, the Attorney General of Washington State has issued a written opinion (AGO 2008 No. 8) which specificaly addresses this issue.

" Dear Senator Morton and Representative Van De Wege:

By letter previously acknowledged, you have asked the following paraphrased question:

Does a city in Washington have the authority to enact a local law that prohibits possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities?


BRIEF ANSWER


The answer to your question is no. RCW 9.41.290 “fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation” and preempts a city’s authority to adopt firearms laws or regulations of application to the general public, unless specifically authorized by state law. Accordingly, RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities."



As the Chielf Law Enforcement Officer of Washington State, the Attorney General's written opinion carries a great deal of weight and is given a great deal of respect in State Courts. Furthermore, the RCW and the Washington State Constitution are legal documents, which the City of Seattle is legally bound to comply with.

Therefore, it is my opinion that disguising this proposed legislation as an administrative rule is chicanery and an affront to the State Constitution, the Revised Code of Washington, and the Office of the Attorney General.

City property is by definition not privately owned. City property is administered by the City for the residents of the city. Since the funding to purchase city property comes from public funding (taxes, initiatives, bonds, grants, etc) the property is owned by the public, or the individual citizens, and not the City administrators. City administrators are just that; administrators.

If the City administrators have no respect for the State Constitution, State Law, and the Office of the Attorney General then the City administrators should be replaced. The City of Seattle is subordinate to Washington State, not vice versa.

Attempting to pass legislation as "administrative rules" and remove law abiding citizens from City property via criminal trespass charges is irresponsible and very possibly unlawful. The personal opinions of members of the City Council on firearms rights have no place in law, municipal code or "administrative rules."

The City needs to know its place, which is subordinate to the State and the citizens in its incorporated area.

The City should stop attempting to impair the rights of individual Washington State citizens to bear arms in defense of their lives.

The City Administrators do not own the City of Seattle. The individual citizens in Seattle own the City of Seattle.
 

cynicist

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State law allows private property owners to prohibit the presence of firearms on their property. As a property owner, the City...

I just read over this for the first time.

The City of Seattle thinks it is a PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER?!!!


And if they do pass it, then let's just go with civil disobedience. That'll bring public awareness to OC.
 

Richard6218

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cynicist wrote:
State law allows private property owners to prohibit the presence of firearms on their property. As a property owner, the City...

I just read over this for the first time.

The City of Seattle thinks it is a PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER?!!!


And if they do pass it, then let's just go with civil disobedience. That'll bring public awareness to OC.

Here's my post on that statement of several days ago:



You argue that the City is somehow governed by the same laws as private property owners by your statement:


State law allows private property owners to prohibit the presence of firearms on their property.[/i]

If your intent is to use the criminal trespass law (RCW 9A.52.070 and 9A.52.080) in the manner of a private property owner to ban firearms you are very seriously misguided. There is no court in this state that will consider you anything but a municipality under every definition at law. Private property owners are not governed by the principle of preemption; as a municipality, you most certainly are. Your attempt to abuse the trespass laws is no more than a veiled attempt to have yourselves considered as private property owner-operators, in order to subvert the intent of the long-established doctrine of preemption as set forth in RCW 9.41.290. I will not belabor the fact that others have argued well that your proposal violates several state and federal laws, as well as the United States and Washington constitutions. The principle of stare decisis [/i]has been well established with regard to case law. I would strongly advise you not to proceed in the face of these precepts
 

Z06

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I'm not sure if it was posted earlier, but they are having public hearing tomorrow (December 15th) to discuss this issue. The hearing will be held at 5:30 p.m. in the Bertha Knight Landes Room in the Seattle City Hall located at 600 4[sup]th[/sup] Avenue in Seattle.
 
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