Civilian/LEO training vs Military Training.

[Michigander]

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dougwg wrote:

Wardog and Michigander,

I'd bet my life that he has forgotten more about self defense shooting then the three of us combined know.

Both of you would do VERY well if you closed your mouths and listened to RSF (Steve Fisher)

I am not trying to detract from his skills, or otherwise bad mouth him or anyone. I am merely calling the facts as I see them. I stand completely behind what I said.

Edit to add: I do not like talking about who I've trained with, what I know and why on forums. It doesn't mean much as it pertains to everyone else. If for some reason Steve, or anyone else wants to know about what I know and how I know it, PM's, email or phone calls are the way I'd be willing to discuss those things.

 

[wardog6d]

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From a personal stand point I think someones ego may have been altered by the misunderstanding that he does not see nor feel there is a difference in the two types of training. Nor does he himself train any different between the two. Which as I statediswrong with civilian training. He and others may get training from great people. However within the civilian world the retraining of others can and usually is altered. This is just one ofthe difference's between military and civilian training. The military doctrine of training is not altered by individuals and there better idea's. If he takes offense in this respect I cant help that. This is a public Internet forum. With personal opinions. Most of the post were vague.

I do not agree nor disagree that he is a great trainer as some have stated. He may be the best trainer in the state. Who knows. That doesn't really impress me as taking classes to be proficient is a great tool, real world applications are the meat and potatoes.

Again not to FLAME anyone.I think several have invited him to team speak to clearly state vocally our misunderstanding that there is a difference between the two. My opinion there are severaldifferences hence the thread.

 

[Phoenixphire]

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Reading this thread, one thought comes to mind....






[align=center]MALL NINJAS.[/align]
[align=center][/align]
[align=center][/align]
[align=left]http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/[/align]

 

[manicdevery]

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autosurgeon wrote:

RSF IE Steve is the real deal.... however sometimes I think he forgets that not everyone knows him

What's his screen name?


Unfortunately it seems that lately many in the firearms community have forgotten that many of us are Type A personalities and that we need to watch it BC we tend to strike sparks off of each other and that is not productive.

+1

 

[SpringerXDacp]

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manicdevery wrote:

autosurgeon wrote:

RSF IE Steve is the real deal.... however sometimes I think he forgets that not everyone knows him

What's his screen name?

 

[Taurus850CIA]

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CV67PAT wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

lil_freak_66 wrote:

limited civilian training(for now)

and if all goes well,which im hoping it does,military training by the end of 2010

What are you waiting for?

IDK about him, but I'm waiting for money and time. lol

Military training is free (sort of... you have to write a check made payable to the United States of America in the amount of "Up to and including my life") and comes with many perks.

Once enrolled for the training, you'll find you have all the time required. You won't even need to do any planning or scheduling at all. It's all done for you as part of the training program.

So what ya waiting for lil_freak?

An excuse not to follow through?

Maybe something to do with his age.

 

[Guest]

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

lil_freak_66 wrote:

limited civilian training(for now)

and if all goes well,which im hoping it does,military training by the end of 2010

What are you waiting for?

IDK about him, but I'm waiting for money and time. lol

Military training is free (sort of... you have to write a check made payable to the United States of America in the amount of "Up to and including my life") and comes with many perks.

Once enrolled for the training, you'll find you have all the time required. You won't even need to do any planning or scheduling at all. It's all done for you as part of the training program.

So what ya waiting for lil_freak?

An excuse not to follow through?

Maybe something to do with his age.

I thought he was 17.

You mean he's not even 17 yet?

 

[jeremy05]

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Hmm LEO training varies from department to department. Even in Michigan it depends on the academy you go through.

I went through School Craft Community college police academy and it was some of the best handgun training I have gotten to date. There was basically 5% of your shooting was standing still, the rest was moving. Even if it was a basic step to the side.

Border Patrol was all shooting in one spot. basically getting the recruits to qualify. The training you can get afterwords is unbelievable! Tons of simunition training with AR15s and pistols, in lots of worst case scenarios and things like that. Of course the training after is optional and you have to sign up for it. Its free, well actually it counts as a a couple days of work, so I don't get why everyone doesn't sign up! lol

While working at a range in Michigan I also learned a LOT of good techniques from "Civilians" that are invaluable also. I can't imagine that one is any better than the other I like to take everything and use what works for me.

I have no experience with military training, just most LEO/BP are ex military so im guessing they learned some from there.

 

[WARCHILD]

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This is a little OT per the conversation but, I was wondering if anyone has looked into how the physical requirements of LEO's are maintained?
If you look at most (not all) officer's today; the vast majority I have seen are overweight and I doubt they would be physically able to use the tactical training they have received. A look at the LPD examples at Ponderosa brings me to question this.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

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WARCHILD wrote:

This is a little OT per the conversation but, I was wondering if anyone has looked into how the physical requirements of LEO's are maintained?
If you look at most (not all) officer's today; the vast majority I have seen are overweight and I doubt they would be physically able to use the tactical training they have received. A look at the LPD examples at Ponderosa brings me to question this.

I personally know someone who is in his 30's, physically fit, frequently runs 5K, 10K and Crim, and failed the agility's test last year.

http://www.uspolicejobs.com/gethired/physicalagility.php

 

[jeremy05]

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WARCHILD wrote:

This is a little OT per the conversation but, I was wondering if anyone has looked into how the physical requirements of LEO's are maintained?
If you look at most (not all) officer's today; the vast majority I have seen are overweight and I doubt they would be physically able to use the tactical training they have received. A look at the LPD examples at Ponderosa brings me to question this.

There are not any departments that i know of that require you to maintain your fitness. The Michigan requirements are a joke anyways, so I doubt even fat people would have a hard time passing.

Certain departments have a fitness test and if you pass it you get a few extra vacation days, or some sort of incentive to stay in shape.... besides not being a fattie.

 

[Michigander]

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jeremy05 wrote:

There are not any departments that i know of that require you to maintain your fitness. The Michigan requirements are a joke anyways, so I doubt even fat people would have a hard time passing.

http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/0,1607,7-229--147713--,00.html

A half mile shuttle run in 4.29 minutes, 30 pushups, 32 situps, and a 17.5" jump.

I am not in very good shape anymore since I busted my leg. I'm trying to get back to being a good runner with well toned muscles, but it's pretty darn hard. That said, I still can easily do all those things. Mcoles is quite a joke.

 

[jeremy05]

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like I said, its a joke. Pretty much the same across the board, I did the tests in Fort Lauderdale FL and also NYC NY, both easy as hell.

 

[Venator]

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Michigander wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

There are not any departments that i know of that require you to maintain your fitness. The Michigan requirements are a joke anyways, so I doubt even fat people would have a hard time passing.

http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/0,1607,7-229--147713--,00.html

A half mile shuttle run in 4.29 minutes, 30 pushups, 32 situps, and a 17.5" jump.

I am not in very good shape anymore since I busted my leg. I'm trying to get back to being a good runner with well toned muscles, but it's pretty darn hard. That said, I still can easily do all those things. Mcoles is quite a joke.

And it just gets harder and harder as you get older. And you're still a young man. wait until your 50s.

 

[jeremy05]

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Venator wrote:

Michigander wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

There are not any departments that i know of that require you to maintain your fitness. The Michigan requirements are a joke anyways, so I doubt even fat people would have a hard time passing.

http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/0,1607,7-229--147713--,00.html

A half mile shuttle run in 4.29 minutes, 30 pushups, 32 situps, and a 17.5" jump.

I am not in very good shape anymore since I busted my leg. I'm trying to get back to being a good runner with well toned muscles, but it's pretty darn hard. That said, I still can easily do all those things. Mcoles is quite a joke.

And it just gets harder and harder as you get older. And you're still a young man. wait until your 50s.

Ill retire at 50, :celebrate I would retire earlier, but you need to have 20years of service and at least 50. So ill have 20+ before im 50 so ill have to put a few more in. No biggie. 50 is the new 30


edit, then walmart greeter! god I cant wait for that job! :lol: