Close to having to shoot a man

[marshaul]

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Pace wrote:

Marshaul, I already said I was wrong, but you gotta point that out twice, you nut!

I wasn't trying to earn e-points or get +internets. I was merely complying with the forum rules and backing my statements about the law up with citations.


(hint hint)

 

[SRaymond]

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This is something to(for me)think about,ahead of time.
Which is why I have come to the conclusion,That I need to carry another form of self defense when OC'ing.
I'm going to carry a Kimber pepper spray "gun",for situations exactly like this one.
What's everyone else think?

Thanks Greengum

SR :uhoh:

 

[Pace]

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I've come to the conclusion that you aren't a nutcase, that we just agree sometimes. If you start to agree with me more, I'll like you more and let you touch my non-Californa Legal SIG556 with an eotech, magnifier and other nifty stuff. You'll have to leave California however

marshaul wrote:

Pace wrote:

Marshaul, I already said I was wrong, but you gotta point that out twice, you nut!

I wasn't trying to earn e-points or get +internets. I was merely complying with the forum rules and backing my statements about the law up with citations.


(hint hint)

 

[marshaul]

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You'll.... let me touch it? :shock:

 

[SomeGuyInCali]

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If I was a lawyer prosecuting a shooting death case I would pursure the statements made by you prior to pulling the trigger:


[align=center]"I tell him in a very calm voice that he needs to go find somewhere else to play, and that if he wants to strike me again he would have deadly consequences."

"I then inform him that I hope this misunderstanding could be resolved without having to get a funeral involved."
[/align]

I would reason that if you had enough time to say these things to him you were not in immediate danger of your life. You made statement showing your intent to kill thus placing you in jeopardy of being convicted of 1st degree murder with intent to kill.
You must be able to convince a jury that you were in fear for your life.

All in all I am glad that no one was hurt.

 

[SomeGuyInCali]

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Pace wrote:

Really interesting story, because it raises a lot of questions, including whether a drunk individual poses a direct risk to life and limb. Was there an immediate need to use deadly force, even if he attacked you?

In California for example, there is an assumption and requirement for a citizen to retreat if possible and use alternative force.

If you had shot him, you'd probably be sitting in jail in most states, unfortunately.

Here's a thought on this. I saw a video of a homicide once that started out as an argument over a girl. The two subjects were intoxicated. Fists started flying. The BIGGER of the two took a hit to the jaw and went to the ground. The LITTLE guy jumped on him and landed a couple more punches. Then the LITTLE guy grabbed the BIG guys head and started pounding his head into the pavement. Not long after the entire intersection was filled with police (almost 20 cop cars) EMS rushed the victim away to the hospital where he died shortly thereafter.

In the heat of the moment you may be too scared to react and respond quickly. The Tueller drill already proves that 21 feet only gives you 1.5 seconds to react. (Not enough time to draw and fire a gun in most cases) You don't know if this man will pull out a knife. You don't know if this man is capable of bringing you down and slamming your head into the pavement. I would not assume that he was drunk. For all I know he is on a narcotic that will give his superhuman strength. Any time I am rushed upon I assume for a moment that my life *might* be in danger and I have about 1 second to decide if that assumption is true and get out of the way.

 

[SmokeaCigShootaSig]

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greengum wrote:

Retreating back to my room was not really an option. I had it propped open with a chair. I never considered flat running either. It would be like Ray Lewis vs. Archie Bunker. My reasoning and actions were based on personal beliefs and not on legal justification. I figured if I made it very clear I would kill him if he was physical with me again I would at least be justified in my own mind, and if maintaining personal liberty and my own life to unjustified outside threats and physical attacks is a punishable offense then something is seriously wrong.

Imagine this guy did that to a cop? or an old lady? or a guy in a wheelchair? or your daughter? When does it ever get justified? Aren't all men created equal that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the persuit of happiness? Should a woman wait for a stranger to penetrate her before she fights back with deadly force to make sure he had an intent to rape?

Most of us here OC and these situations almost never come up. We all say the mantra's of why we carry, mostly for personal defense and some for political statements. I mean, ask yourself honestly in a matter of seconds in the heat of the moment, do you pull the trigger? If not what would justify each one of you personally to do it? Where is your proverbial line in the sand?

Well said, well played, and I wish you WELL =)

I 100% fully understand where you are coming from & trying to articulate. Your kept your cool! Would the city of Orange think so? Prolly not. . . Because most LEO's (Including the DA) in this county have their heads up their own rear-end.
I Commend you and THANK You for sharing your story with us!

 

[oc4ever]

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Just think about this in the simplest of terms.

If you would have shot this obnoxious drunk, you deserve to go to jail. Guns are the last option to use, not the first, just because you were armed. Imagine if every police officer that encountered a drunk choose to shoot them instead of using physical force to over come the resistance to arrest? The streets would be littered with dead drunks. Your situation does not even begin to come close to using deadly force as a healthy male. If the drunk would have kicked down the door to the rooom, you were a female and he was yelling he was going to kill you, and had a weapon to do so, he could be shot. Anything less than that and you are treading on legal thin ice,depending on the county the incident would occur. Having a open motel door is a invitation to trouble and the prosecution could have inferred you let him in to settle the matter,or engage in some other illegal activity, a bad thing.

You had many options, that you did not think about. Retreat, hand fight, use other less than lethal force options, like biting kicking,screaming for help, eye poke, groin kick, throwing objects close at hand etc. The list goes on. Facing off with a drunk is not a license to kill, you need to really think this out much better than you did.

 

[heliopolissolutions]

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oc4ever wrote:

Just think about this in the simplest of terms.

If you would have shot this obnoxious drunk, you deserve to go to jail. Guns are the last option to use, not the first, just because you were armed. Imagine if every police officer that encountered a drunk choose to shoot them instead of using physical force to over come the resistance to arrest? The streets would be littered with dead drunks. Your situation does not even begin to come close to using deadly force as a healthy male. If the drunk would have kicked down the door to the rooom, you were a female and he was yelling he was going to kill you, and had a weapon to do so, he could be shot. Anything less than that and you are treading on legal thin ice,depending on the county the incident would occur. Having a open motel door is a invitation to trouble and the prosecution could have inferred you let him in to settle the matter,or engage in some other illegal activity, a bad thing.

You had many options, that you did not think about. Retreat, hand fight, use other less than lethal force options, like biting kicking,screaming for help, eye poke, groin kick, throwing objects close at hand etc. The list goes on. Facing off with a drunk is not a license to kill, you need to really think this out much better than you did.

Whoa there, mustang sally, what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Grapeshot]

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Belated comment on my part, but would never suggest referring to deadly force or funerals in the context of the conversation - such borders on escalation of force to me. ymmv

Other than that the OP defused the situation well - would have called the police afterward though had it been me.

Yata hey