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College Student Arrested for Legally Carrying on Campus!

Doug Huffman

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Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
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Mike wrote:
Puddin99

WOW! So the police break the law and this student, who was following the law, must justify the illegal police action thru the legal fiction that HE broke the law somehow??

Is this part of an English course covering Kafka's The trial?
Scappoose, Oregon, Puddin's registered location is (very near) the location of JohnnyB and his sockpuppets.
 

Phssthpok

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Doug Huffman wrote:
Mike wrote:
Puddin99

WOW! So the police break the law and this student, who was following the law, must justify the illegal police action thru the legal fiction that HE broke the law somehow??

Is this part of an English course covering Kafka's The trial?
Scappoose, Oregon, Puddin's registered location is (very near) the location of JohnnyB and his sockpuppets.
Are you implying that Puddin is Johnny?

Having met the man on several occasions, I highly doubt it, though I suppose if he was bucking for an Oscar he could be putting on an act (one way or the other).
 

Orygunner

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Springfield, Oregon, USA
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Phssthpok wrote:
Doug Huffman wrote:
Mike wrote:
Puddin99

WOW! So the police break the law and this student, who was following the law, must justify the illegal police action thru the legal fiction that HE broke the law somehow??

Is this part of an English course covering Kafka's The trial?
Scappoose, Oregon, Puddin's registered location is (very near) the location of JohnnyB and his sockpuppets.
Are you implying that Puddin is Johnny?

Having met the man on several occasions, I highly doubt it, though I suppose if he was bucking for an Oscar he could be putting on an act (one way or the other).
I know for 102% certainty that puddin99 is not JohnnyB. Although I have only met puddin99 and have not met JohnnyB, Puddin... just... COULDN'T be JohnnyB.

It's difficult to explain, but you've gotta believe me.

...Orygunner...
 

deanme

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Yo "Gun Owning Liberal",



You need to choose a different display name. One that isn't an oxymoron.



I think it is you who has selectively read the Oregon Statutes.



You libs are all the same. You make claims like, "I'm a liberal who supports gun rights" to make yourself not look like what you are: gun grabbing leftists.



http://www.oregonfirearms.org/LC%20opinion%20Stubbs/LC%20Opinion.pdf



The person who wrote the pdf is a lawyer. What happened to this student is just another example of power hungry liberals over stepping their legal bounds.



If it was a crime as you claim, why were the charges dropped.



Until you can reconcile that, you should just quietly go away and stick to something you know about like bankrupting the country.
 

deanme

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GJD wrote: $100,000,000 lawsuit anyone?

Add three more zeros just to make the point. Don't f### with our guns!
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
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Mike wrote:
From the article:

"I believe the Monmouth Police Department issued the citation in good faith and that there was an arguable violation," Butterfield wrote in the e-mail, which was obtained by KATU.com. "However, a careful reading of the statute and the facts led me to conclude the charge was not in the best interest of justice."
"Not in the best interest of justice." = Lawyer-speak for "we really screwed up, and we'd like to not be sued".

What a joke these people are.

I do admire the lawmaker that wrote the university though... I wish some of our lawmakers would write this to our universities here in Virginia.

From the OFF press release, this quote:

State Representative Kim Thatcher (R-Keizer, Newberg, St. Paul) sent a letter to the top officials at Western and the rest of the University System in Oregon last week asking them to explain why they continue to enforce polices which conflict with state statutes.

"I'm disappointed WOU is not getting the message. Clearly they can't have policies which violate state law," said Thatcher. "It's unfortunate the University System is spending tax dollars to violate a student's civil rights when we're facing significant budget cuts for higher education."
TFred
 

Blinn79

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Cypress, Texas, USA
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What is funny, is this almost exact thing happened to me in Texas. I was arrested for "carrying a prohibited weapon, in a prohibited place" which is a 3rd degree felony in Texas.

I was riding in a crew cab truck with some friends, and they pulled over into a large parking lot off the road to try to find a lighter he had dropped on the floor board of his truck. Well once he stopped we all got out to try to find his lighter since two of the passengers were smokers (cigs not the other stuff) and were having nicotine fits.

While standing here in this dark parking lot around this truck, a Pct. 4 Harris County Constable drove by and took notice of us. He decided to pull into the parking lot and see what we were up to.

He asked what we were doing and we explained and he asked to see ID's from all of us. Well since I was carrying my Glock 23 on me, I gave him my D.L. and my C.H.L. as required by law.

He went to his car to run our ID's and I am sure check for warrants. Well after about 8 to 10 minutes, 2 other police vehicles showed up. He returned to me and asked me to turn around a place my hands on the truck. He then removed my handgun off me, and told me "do you realize this is a school parking lot?". In which I replied "no I did not, but I do not see how that is relevant". He then replied "your carrying a handgun on school grounds". I replied "I understand that, but school premises does not apply to a parking lot for a conceal handgun license holder".

He then laughed at me and told me "I think I know the law better then you". In which I said "well in all respect sir, I am T.C.L.E.O.S.E. (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education) certified just like you, as I graduated from H.C.C. Police Academy and past my TCLEOSE test. I am also a Criminal Justice major and I am very much aware of my rights and what the law says. Maybe you are mistaken, and we can look it up in your Texas Penal Code book."

He laughed at me again, and hand cuffed me, then placed me in the back of his cruiser. I was taken to Cypresswood Pct. 4 holding cell, and then later transferred by bus to downtown Harris County Jail. I had to post a $5,000 bail and then immeaditly headed for home where I grabbed my Texas Penal Code book from when I was in the police academy.

After a little research I found Texas Penal Code 46.035, "carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibted place by a CHL holder". See they were trying to charge me with a seperate crime, that did not and COULD NOT be charged to me, because I am in fact a "CHL holder".

Now low and behold at the end of the statue it says in big print and I quote:

Code:
3)  "Premises" means a building or a portion of a 
building.  The term does not include any public or private driveway, 
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other 
parking area.
So armed with this new found knowledge I went into court my first day (with no attorney) and asked to speak to the district attorney who was in charge of prosecuting me in my case. I tried to show her my penal code book and ask her about the statue, in which she replied very much like the officer with "I went to law school. I am quite aware of what the law says", and blew me off.

When the session started she even told the judge "the prosecution is ready to proceed" which in my book means she had read over the case, and felt she had a firm case here.

Well the judge asked me where my attorney was, and when I told him I did not have one, he quickly advised me to be quite and said we would reset the court date until I could find counsel. I tried to explain to him I did not need a attorney and he again warned me of how serious of a matter this is. I ended up having to say "well I know I have a right to represent myself, so if that is what needs to be done for me to be able to speak, then I will take that right". At that point I am assuming he took me more serious and asked me what it was I wanted to show him.

He looked at my penal code book and read the high lighted section I quoted above. Then closed the book and looked at the front cover. It was a 2 yr old edition, so he asked the district attorney to see her copy of the penal code (a newer copy). He checked in her copy to make sure the law had not been revised in the last two years, then asked the D.A., "can you explain this" in which time she was happy to look at the statue for him.

Well after reading it, she kind of stood there dumb founded and quite. The judge called a five minute recess and told the D.A. he wanted to speak to her in his chambers. Five minutes later they returned and he said "having looked at this new found situation, the case is dismissed".

Now since this is already running long, I will skip quite a few steps and say it was not over there. My Glock was taken as "evidence" for my case. I was told I couldn't have it back by Pct. 4 Constables (where it was locked up in their evidence room) because the D.A. had to sign off on something, even though I had paperwork showing the case was dismissed.

Later a friend's wife, who works downtown in that same criminal court building spoke with the officer for that court room, who spoke with that D.A., who told him to relay the message back down to me that and I quote "hell will freeze over before he gets that handgun back".

Fastforward a year later, and many, many calls later, and leaving about 50 voice mails on the Corporal who was in charge of the evidence room, he called me back and told me I could have my pistol back if I promised to stop calling him. I went up there, signed some piece of paper saying I got the pistol back, and he brought it out to me. I don't know if he just figured the D.A. would surely have forgot about it since it was a year later, or what, but on that day, hell must have froze over.

Also I thought that was the end of that whole ordeal (this happend in March of 2006), and now that I have finished my degree in Criminal Justice, and am trying to go into law enforcement, I have now found out that most departments won't look at me because I was CHARGED with a felony. Yup, that is correct. I have been told that I will probably have to go spend $1,000 to a attorney to go to court and try to get that event expunged of my record.

So all in all, this "know it all" officer who was obviously not very knowledgeable of the law, cost me thousands of dollars, a couple days in jail, and possibly my future career in law enforcement.
 

darthmord

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Oct 10, 2008
Messages
998
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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Blinn79 wrote:
What is funny, is this almost exact thing happened to me in Texas. I was arrested for "carrying a prohibited weapon, in a prohibited place" which is a 3rd degree felony in Texas.

I was riding in a crew cab truck with some friends, and they pulled over into a large parking lot off the road to try to find a lighter he had dropped on the floor board of his truck. Well once he stopped we all got out to try to find his lighter since two of the passengers were smokers (cigs not the other stuff) and were having nicotine fits.

While standing here in this dark parking lot around this truck, a Pct. 4 Harris County Constable drove by and took notice of us. He decided to pull into the parking lot and see what we were up to.

He asked what we were doing and we explained and he asked to see ID's from all of us. Well since I was carrying my Glock 23 on me, I gave him my D.L. and my C.H.L. as required by law.

He went to his car to run our ID's and I am sure check for warrants. Well after about 8 to 10 minutes, 2 other police vehicles showed up. He returned to me and asked me to turn around a place my hands on the truck. He then removed my handgun off me, and told me "do you realize this is a school parking lot?". In which I replied "no I did not, but I do not see how that is relevant". He then replied "your carrying a handgun on school grounds". I replied "I understand that, but school premises does not apply to a parking lot for a conceal handgun license holder".

He then laughed at me and told me "I think I know the law better then you". In which I said "well in all respect sir, I am T.C.L.E.O.S.E. (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education) certified just like you, as I graduated from H.C.C. Police Academy and past my TCLEOSE test. I am also a Criminal Justice major and I am very much aware of my rights and what the law says. Maybe you are mistaken, and we can look it up in your Texas Penal Code book."

He laughed at me again, and hand cuffed me, then placed me in the back of his cruiser. I was taken to Cypresswood Pct. 4 holding cell, and then later transferred by bus to downtown Harris County Jail. I had to post a $5,000 bail and then immeaditly headed for home where I grabbed my Texas Penal Code book from when I was in the police academy.

After a little research I found Texas Penal Code 46.035, "carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibted place by a CHL holder". See they were trying to charge me with a seperate crime, that did not and COULD NOT be charged to me, because I am in fact a "CHL holder".

Now low and behold at the end of the statue it says in big print and I quote:

Code:
3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a 
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, 
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other 
parking area.
So armed with this new found knowledge I went into court my first day (with no attorney) and asked to speak to the district attorney who was in charge of prosecuting me in my case. I tried to show her my penal code book and ask her about the statue, in which she replied very much like the officer with "I went to law school. I am quite aware of what the law says", and blew me off.

When the session started she even told the judge "the prosecution is ready to proceed" which in my book means she had read over the case, and felt she had a firm case here.

Well the judge asked me where my attorney was, and when I told him I did not have one, he quickly advised me to be quite and said we would reset the court date until I could find counsel. I tried to explain to him I did not need a attorney and he again warned me of how serious of a matter this is. I ended up having to say "well I know I have a right to represent myself, so if that is what needs to be done for me to be able to speak, then I will take that right". At that point I am assuming he took me more serious and asked me what it was I wanted to show him.

He looked at my penal code book and read the high lighted section I quoted above. Then closed the book and looked at the front cover. It was a 2 yr old edition, so he asked the district attorney to see her copy of the penal code (a newer copy). He checked in her copy to make sure the law had not been revised in the last two years, then asked the D.A., "can you explain this" in which time she was happy to look at the statue for him.

Well after reading it, she kind of stood there dumb founded and quite. The judge called a five minute recess and told the D.A. he wanted to speak to her in his chambers. Five minutes later they returned and he said "having looked at this new found situation, the case is dismissed".

Now since this is already running long, I will skip quite a few steps and say it was not over there. My Glock was taken as "evidence" for my case. I was told I couldn't have it back by Pct. 4 Constables (where it was locked up in their evidence room) because the D.A. had to sign off on something, even though I had paperwork showing the case was dismissed.

Later a friend's wife, who works downtown in that same criminal court building spoke with the officer for that court room, who spoke with that D.A., who told him to relay the message back down to me that and I quote "hell will freeze over before he gets that handgun back".

Fastforward a year later, and many, many calls later, and leaving about 50 voice mails on the Corporal who was in charge of the evidence room, he called me back and told me I could have my pistol back if I promised to stop calling him. I went up there, signed some piece of paper saying I got the pistol back, and he brought it out to me. I don't know if he just figured the D.A. would surely have forgot about it since it was a year later, or what, but on that day, hell must have froze over.

Also I thought that was the end of that whole ordeal (this happend in March of 2006), and now that I have finished my degree in Criminal Justice, and am trying to go into law enforcement, I have now found out that most departments won't look at me because I was CHARGED with a felony. Yup, that is correct. I have been told that I will probably have to go spend $1,000 to a attorney to go to court and try to get that event expunged of my record.

So all in all, this "know it all" officer who was obviously not very knowledgeable of the law, cost me thousands of dollars, a couple days in jail, and possibly my future career in law enforcement.
Hopefully the statute of limitations hasn't expired. I'd look at a suit for wrongful arrest (or whatever it is call). I would think you had / have an actionable case against the police dept if it turned out like you said.
 

KBCraig

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Aug 7, 2007
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Granite State of Mind
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Five-Oh! wrote:
????? the hearing that took place earlier this week mainly involved shool policies and the 14" knife the kid had in his pocket...

That's the first reference I've seen to the size or type of knife. What's your source?
 

Gordie

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Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
716
Location
, Nevada, USA
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KBCraig wrote:
Five-Oh! wrote:
????? the hearing that took place earlier this week mainly involved shool policies and the 14" knife the kid had in his pocket...

That's the first reference I've seen to the size or type of knife. What's your source?
Big pockets to allow for a 14" knife to be in them.
 

Orygunner

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
737
Location
Springfield, Oregon, USA
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KBCraig wrote:
Five-Oh! wrote:
????? the hearing that took place earlier this week mainly involved shool policies and the 14" knife the kid had in his pocket...

That's the first reference I've seen to the size or type of knife. What's your source?

Yeah, in the interview I saw I think he said it was a little over 4 inches or something similar... I'll have to find the link to that interview. 14" is a little large.



Source, please?

...Orygunner...
 

Ian

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
710
Location
Austin, TX
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Maybe I missed something in the article, but what grounds did the police have to approach him and and even ask if he had weapons on him in the first place? Because he matched the description of a suspicious person? What was he doing when the police approached him?

If that was the case, he should've asked the officers what the problem was before saying anything else.
 
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