Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Dont forget a 911 call is just hearsay and does not in any way constitute RAS or PC an officer has to have more than a call to detain someone.
Cite, please.
Dont forget a 911 call is just hearsay and does not in any way constitute RAS or PC an officer has to have more than a call to detain someone.
florida V. J.L.
maybe we can do a columbia park open carry BBQ this summer.
This is an excellent opportunity for us to adjust the thinking of KPD with a appropriate letter. I, being fairly new to this sort of LE interaction, would love whatever suggestions about a letter or other response to KPD to get this addressed correctly.
Thanks!
SNIP Today I am really quite disturbed and, well, angry. I have been reading your advice and input on my situation and I am really beginning to see that certain folk’s views on OCDO, whom I thought might be a bit over the top are probably not off the mark at all.
I preach to my children about the nature of tyranny and yet, when confronted by it on a personal level, I immediately tried to be it’s friend.
I think what you're driving at is that Freedom First's lack of objection turned it into a consensual encounter.
Legally, it didn't. A whole host of SCOTUS opinions hold that a person is seized for the meaning of the 4th Amendment if he reasonably believes he is not free to leave. When a police officer summons a citizen, disarms him, and demands ID in order to run a check, no court in the land would rule other than that a "reasonable person would believe he was not free to leave" in this circumstance.
So, it was an unconstitutional seizure, especially since the officer immediately acknowledged he was only responding to a call, not RAS that crime was afoot.
The downside: with no damage other than a waste of Freedom First's time, there's nothing actionable in court. Not that I think he wants to go that route. What he suggests (an education campaign) is exactly the right approach. He can fix the problem without creating more enmity, and might even make some allies.
Welcome to the fight!
That last sentence is pure poetry. Well done, for the prose, the strength to recognize, and the strength to say it. The forces of tyranny definitely don't like men with character--they prefer meek little people, the kind who will lie to themselves that each usurpation is necessary and isn't really all that big of a deal.
I would simply ask them if it's standard departmental policy to stop, disarm, and detain law-abiding citizens who're lawfully carrying a lawfully-owned firearm. I might also ask them if the answer is "yes," then why aren't they conducting routine stops of drivers to make sure they're carry the required insurance. I might then ask them since such stops are illegal, why isn't it illegal for them to stop a law-abiding citizen who's lawfully carrying a lawfully-owned firearm?
Well guys, this has been an interesting weekend and I have had a little time to think about what happened. It’s easy to say or think certain ways about a theoretical situation but when it actually happens, it’s very different.
Yesterday I found it almost humorous that I was contacted on my own street instead of the myriad places I have been OCing in the last year. Today I am really quite disturbed and, well, angry. I have been reading your advice and input on my situation and I am really beginning to see that certain folk’s views on OCDO, whom I thought might be a bit over the top are probably not off the mark at all.
Over the last six years, I have been awakening to the world we actually do live in. I grew up and was processed through our government’s schools, served in the government’s army, and have been paying taxes to the same government ever since. I am a nice guy. I have a nice family. I have gotten exactly two tickets in my entire life. Then I started asking questions and reading crazy things like the Declaration and my Constitution. Worst of all, I began acting on what I was learning. And because I now choose to act in a completely legal, but poorly understood manner, I am singled out and embarrassed in front of my neighbors by a man with a badge.
Over the next week I will be following the advice of several members here. I will be addressing this and honestly, next time, and there will be a next time for I have no plans to change my current mode of carry, I will not be nearly so compliant. I preach to my children about the nature of tyranny and yet, when confronted by it on a personal level, I immediately tried to be it’s friend.
"No plan survives contact with the enemy" — Erwin Rommel
I recommend that all OCers go on down to your local PD and introduce yourself and inform them that you routinely OC. Where you are most likely to OC and how you OC. Then the local PD will now know you and they will not illegally disarm you, since they know you.
OH REALLY????
I think not.
I recommend that all OCers go on down to your local PD and introduce yourself and inform them that you routinely OC. Where you are most likely to OC and how you OC. Then the local PD will now know you and they will not illegally disarm you, since they know you.
OH REALLY????
I think not.
Who was it that walked into the PCSO substation while OC'ing? Remember how that went at first.
light reading,,, BIG FIND!!
we can throw all that RAS and PC BS out.
GET A WARRANT!!!
now what does big dave have to argue about?
SECTION 7 INVASION OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS OR HOME PROHIBITED. No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law.
I would simply ask them if it's standard departmental policy to stop, disarm, and detain law-abiding citizens who're lawfully carrying a lawfully-owned firearm. I might also ask them if the answer is "yes," then why aren't they conducting routine stops of drivers to make sure they're carry the required insurance. I might then ask them since such stops are illegal, why isn't it illegal for them to stop a law-abiding citizen who's lawfully carrying a lawfully-owned firearm?