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Countdown to McDonald

AtackDuck

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
214
Location
King George, Virginia, USA
Ouch!

I'm only on page 64, but I like how scalia (starting on page 52) put the smack down on stevens.

If the gun control crowd thought "Heller" was rough on them, "MacDonald" will haunt them forever. It's almost as if Alito (et al) took the shopping list of gun control law arguments and went down the line, skewering each point, then topping it off with helping of real history. I'll be reading the dissent as soon as I finish the Opinion, but I somehow think the dissent will be the usual ignoring of reality and get blown out of the water.
 
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KS_to_CA

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
443
Location
National City, CA, ,
Erin: The opinion concludes that the 14th Amendment does incorporate the Second Amendment right recognized in Heller to keep and bear arms in self defense

Monday June 28, 2010 10:05 Erin

10:05 Tom: 5-4 Monday June 28, 2010 10:05 Tom

10:05 Erin: Stevens dissents for himself. Breyer dissents, joined by Ginsburg and Sotomayor. Monday June 28, 2010








DUE PROCESS




Let's count our blessings. with a 5-4 vote, imagine if Kagan was already sitting (assuming she gets the confirmation).
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Kagan is replacing Stevens, so it's not a net loss. The worst thing about Kagan is her age. We'll be stuck with her for decades.

TFred

The worst thing is her obviously negative position - the ultimate reality of the length of her term remains to be seen, but I do understand your point.

Yata hey
 

nonameisgood

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Dec 4, 2008
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Big D
Anyone else notice the wide approach (excerpt from page 19-20 from the Opinion of the Court):
"Our decision in Heller points unmistakably to the answer. Self-defense is a basic right, recognized by many legal systems from ancient times to the present day,15 and in Heller, we held that individual self-defense is “the central component” of the Second Amendment right. 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 26); see also id., at ___ (slip op., at56) (stating that the “inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right”). Explaining that “the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute” in the home, ibid., we found that this right applies to handguns because they are “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” id., at ___ (slip op., at 57) (someinternal quotation marks omitted); see also id., at ___ (slip op., at 56) (noting that handguns are “overwhelmingly chosen by American society for [the] lawful purpose” ofself-defense); id., at ___ (slip op., at 57) (“[T]he American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessen-tial self-defense weapon”). Thus, we concluded, citizens must be permitted “to use [handguns] for the core lawful purpose of self-defense.” Id., at ___ (slip op., at 58).
--
This seems to open a door to a carry case. The phrasing "'...most acute' in the home" seems like it begs the question of one's own right to have a firearm at hand when the need arises in a place other than the home. Alito says about the limit on a right to have a weapon: "We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as "'prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill', [and] laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings..."

This sounds like an invitation.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
From here... now that's a sound bite:

"To those who would prey upon the citizens of the city of Chicago, to the criminals -- I would like to say the Chicago crime buffet is over," said Colleen Lawson, a plaintiff in the lawsuit McDonald v. City of Chicago. "We are not prey."

TFred
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Anyone else notice the wide approach (excerpt from page 19-20 from the Opinion of the Court):
"Our decision in Heller points unmistakably to the answer. Self-defense is a basic right, recognized by many legal systems from ancient times to the present day,15 and in Heller, we held that individual self-defense is “the central component” of the Second Amendment right. 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 26); see also id., at ___ (slip op., at56) (stating that the “inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right”). Explaining that “the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute” in the home, ibid., we found that this right applies to handguns because they are “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” id., at ___ (slip op., at 57) (someinternal quotation marks omitted); see also id., at ___ (slip op., at 56) (noting that handguns are “overwhelmingly chosen by American society for [the] lawful purpose” ofself-defense); id., at ___ (slip op., at 57) (“[T]he American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessen-tial self-defense weapon”). Thus, we concluded, citizens must be permitted “to use [handguns] for the core lawful purpose of self-defense.” Id., at ___ (slip op., at 58).
--
This seems to open a door to a carry case. The phrasing "'...most acute' in the home" seems like it begs the question of one's own right to have a firearm at hand when the need arises in a place other than the home. Alito says about the limit on a right to have a weapon: "We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as "'prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill', [and] laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings..."

This sounds like an invitation.

The door, no the flood gate, has been flung wide open.

I keep hearing the phrase "protected class" in my head - not perfect, but a darn sight better than yesterday.

Yata hey
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Class III weapons?

While pistols seem to be the prefered choice for self defense, I prefer fully automatic AR10's firing .308 rounds. I wonder if this ruling will have any affect on the limitation of class III weapons.

The worst thing about the restrictions on Class III's is forcing us to purchase from a limited supply of 25+ year old firearms. TDI has a 45acp fully automatic machine gun that I can't buy because it wasn't produced before 1986. The remaining market is so tight that prices on class III weapons is 18-20x the price of a newly produced unused gun that WE ARENT ALLOWED TO PURCHASE! :banghead:

This is my personal pet pieve about the gubbermant not understanding simple phrases like "shall not be infringed".
 

MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
894
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
Nothing to celebrate

I've read little that even mentions the actual facts of the matter. The federal government has absolutely NO authority to regulate firearms, education, health care or most of the rest of the things they meddle in. The whole thing about state's "rights" and federal power is mere distraction from this fact. As it stands, when the federal government decides to dictate the "gun laws" to each state, and RKBA people support that... they are slitting their own throats. If they support a federal power to dictate gun laws, why would they object to federal laws that dictate health care or any of the rest of it.

On the surface, it looks like this ruling would benefit gun owners in some places in the short run... but letting the camel get his nose under the tent is never a good idea. Even if his breath is sweet today, it will be rotten tomorrow. Count on it.

So, this whole thing is a lose/lose set up for all of us... and a "win" only for the tyrants.
 

Wiley

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Marietta, Georgia, USA
I'll be wearing a black arm band this July 4.

I am baffled why eveyone is so happy about the contiuation of intitutionalized racism. Only one Justice (Thomas)arguing for the Priviliges or Iimmunities clause.

We've been 'Scaila'd' twice: Once in Heller and now McDonald with his irrational fear of overturning precident. That's what the Court is supposed to do!

The court is, or should be, an embarassment to all who read the decision.
 

Brass Magnet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
I am baffled why eveyone is so happy about the contiuation of intitutionalized racism. Only one Justice (Thomas)arguing for the Priviliges or Iimmunities clause.

We've been 'Scaila'd' twice: Once in Heller and now McDonald with his irrational fear of overturning precident. That's what the Court is supposed to do!

The court is, or should be, an embarassment to all who read the decision.
Not everybody is happy about it. I would have prefered incorporation through PorI but I'll take what I can get. I believe we would have had the civil rights movment nearly 100 years earlier if Slaughterhouse would have been decided correctly.

As for comments about the federal government trampling on states rights with this issue I'd disagree in that the states have been trampling on our rights and that the only thing the Bill of Rights does is tell the goverment which rights they can't touch. It's not supposed to empower the Fed. Now the 2A is telling the states what they can't do, not what they or the Fed can do. Unfortunately, as of late, that part of the equation is up to the activist courts, including the conservative ones. In any case, having a couple go our way is better than the alternative.

If this is now, or soon will be actionable under 1983 we will begin to see some real progress just like the civil rights movement. Remember that many states, mine included, don't include the fee shifting provisions for civil suits against the state but 1983 federal cases do include them making it more affordable to sue for our rights. We will begin seeing 14a civil lawsuits which we wouldn't be able to bring to trial before.
 
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