imported post
PilotPTK wrote:
Venator wrote:
PilotPTK wrote:
MCL 750.227 further backs up my claim...
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
Yet another peice of legislation that suggests it's possible to carry a pistol NOT concealed inside of a vehicle.
I agree that you need a CPL to carry a pistol in a vehicle - PERIOD. I do not agree that you ALWAYS have to disclose just because you are excercising a privilege granted by said license. The license gives us several priviliges (carrying concealed, carrying in a vehicle, openly carrying in a pistol free zone, carrying in places with liquor licenses, etc.). However, the only time we have to disclose is when excercising the particular privilege of carrying concealed.
Ben
The law considers a loaded handgun in a vehicle as CONCEALED whether it was OCed or not. Otherwise OC would be legal in a vehicle for people without a CPL or on a motorcycle (which has been discussed before and shown I believe to be unlawful to OC on one without a CPL, but I digress.). So if all loaded handguns in/on a vehicle are considered concealed, then you must disclose per state law.
For aperson that is OCing and has a CPL and is stopped on a motorcycle, it would be obvious the person has a gun, but an astute officer is going to ask for both your DL and your CPL. I guess I would still say to the officer as he approached, I have a CPL and am carrying a handgun
Now do you have an argument for court for not disclosing while OCing a car? Yes, but not a very strong one. The only way to test it is to take it to trial. Or get an AG opinion, which still doesn't guarantee you wont be charged.
"
The law considers a loaded handgun in a vehicle as CONCEALED"
Could you please cite a MCL Reference for that.
Only this from my above post.
Okay the law state that you can not carry a pistol whether loaded or not,(doesn't specify loaded) on you or in your car PERIOD. Look at Sec. .227
BUT there are some exceptions which are outlined in the law .231a. You can have a handgun in a car with a CPL, or unloaded, etc... without a CPL, and a few other exceptions. So my argument is that if you have a loaded handgun in a car under the authority of a CPL the law would consider that concealed because of .227. If it's considered concealed, then a CPL holder must disclose it.
Granted it may or may not be an issue based on where the gun was, and the interpretation of the LEO on site. But it is definitely one of the many gray areas in the law.
750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
Sec. 227.
(1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
Sec. 231a.
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
(2) As used in this section:
(a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:
(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:
(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.
(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
