Does the NRA do a good job of protecting 2A and my gun rights?

[mark edward marchiafava]

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You cannot understand why anyone would vote "strongly disagree?" That's too funny.

The NRA (negotiate rights away) : advance and protect? The only thing the NRA advances and protects is THEIR agenda, not your rights.

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

You cannot understand why anyone would vote "strongly disagree?" That's too funny.

The NRA (negotiate rights away) : advance and protect? The only thing the NRA advances and protects is THEIR agenda, not your rights.

What is THEIR agenda? Specifically.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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"Their" agenda is the same as Jesse Jackson's. Constantly agitate a situation/condition in order to justify your existence. If tomorrow morning, we all woke up and all the states and the federal government announced they had a secret conference during the night and agreed to repeal ALL gun laws, the NRA (negotiate rights away) would have no reason for it's continued existence. All the fat salaries and perks would evaporate instantly. It'd be pretty damned hard for that bunch in Virginia to solicit funds from unsuspecting, gullible Amerikans. Throughout history, there have always been certain persons who lust for power. Some pursue to quench their lusts with public office, others seek it in the private sector, LOTS of them apply for work as "law enforcement officers." The NRA is no exception. Try this: call the NRA, ask for any of the upper tier of management, ask them to take a 50% cut in pay.

Let me know how it turns out.

 

[JB]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

If tomorrow morning, we all woke up and all the states and the federal government announced they had a secret conference during the night and agreed to repeal ALL gun laws,

Untill that happens I'm happy to pay the small price of membership andthrow in an extra $20 when I can.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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As I've always said, one of the things about living in Amerika is stupid people can do stupid things unless/until it interferes with the rights of others.

Funding that group in Virginia is your choice...........

 

[WhiteFeather]

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What is THEIR agenda? Specifically.

Making money and financing huge saleries for people who don't need it as of late...

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Try this: call the NRA, ask for any of the upper tier of management, ask them to take a 50% cut in pay.

Let me know how it turns out.

OK. That's a measurable thing: ask a person if they want to take a 50% pay cut.

But, wait. What does that get us? EVERYONE, IN ANY JOB, IN ANY ORGANIZATION, PUBLIC OR PRIVEATE would say no to that question.

:lol:

P.S. Hey, MEM, would YOU take a 50% cut in pay? If say no, itproves you're an AmeriKan!!!! Hey, I'm getting the hang of this...

:lol:

 

[Tomahawk]

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HankT wrote:

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Try this: call the NRA, ask for any of the upper tier of management, ask them to take a 50% cut in pay.

Let me know how it turns out.

OK. That's a measurable thing: ask a person if they want to take a 50% pay cut.

But, wait. What does that get us? EVERYONE, IN ANY JOB, IN ANY ORGANIZATION, PUBLIC OR PRIVEATE would say no to that question.

:lol:

P.S. Hey, MEM, would YOU take a 50% cut in pay? If say no, itproves you're an AmeriKan!!!! Hey, I'm getting the hang of this...

:lol:

Actually, the officers in some very effective grass-roots organizations do it for free, often doing things out of pocket and even blowing vacation days to get it done.

I don't understand why VCDL, with at most a few thousand members, can get well over 50 people to drive across the state and show up at a council meeting for free to defend a fellow gunowner when NRA boasts about 4 million members nationwide and never calls out the troops to show up, instead paying professional lobbyists big bucks to drink brandy with politicians. Where was NRA at Manassas? Where was NRA at Norfolk?

Imagine if NRA adopted some grassroots tactics, they'd make VCDL look like an old ladies' tea party. Even assuming the membership includes a lot of dead weight, like Mitt Romney / John Kerry phonies, gun dealers who could care less about anything that doesn't affect their living, Zumbo-the-Hunter types, and people who join because a boyfriend or a family member talked them into it, that multi-million person membership must contain a few hundred thousand potential grassroots activists.

If NRA used its considerable power to get the word out they would be so much more powerful. A personality like Chuck Heston should have been allowed to activate people and inspire members to take action the way the more effective grassroots orgs do, but NRA isn't wired for that.

I am not happy with the NRA, for most of the reasons in this thread. But I'm not going to renounce my life membership, which was paid for years ago, before I was aware of the NRA's compromising ways and lack of stomach for controversy, and undermining of non-NRA-affiliated gun rights groups. Instead, I'm gonna stick around and take it for what it's worth: A good organization to maintain 2A visibility and get people interested in shooting sports and firearms. Gun rights for beginners.

Maybe someday they will change their ways and become more effective, but I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile they can keep wasting non-life members' money to send me worthless magazines and promotional offers.

 

[thnycav]

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I feel that the NRA is more than just a gun lobby. They have some of the finest gun training and safety programs.

 

[Kelly J]

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HankT wrote:

JB wrote:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjQzZTY2NzQ5MmFhOWIxZGQ2NjUwMGY5YzVlZTUwYzM=&w=MQ==

" No less than Bill Clinton opined on The Charlie Rose Show after Al Gore’s loss that: “The NRA beat him in Arkansas. The NRA and Ralph Nader stand right behind the Supreme Court in their ability to claim that they put George Bush in the White House.... I think the NRA had enough votes in New Hampshire, in Arkansas, maybe in Tennessee and in Missouri to beat us. And they nearly whipped us in two or three other places.”


Straight from the horse's mouth.

Pretty straightforward "endorsement."

That's why I can't understand why anyone would possibly vote Strongly Disagree in this poll. I wonder who those two are? Huffman? .... Kelly J??? Hard to tell.

One thing is for sure: All gun owners and carriers need the NRA to advance their interests and protect their rights. Doesn't matter if they are members or not. The NRA is gonna advance and protectanyway. Hmm, that would be a good motto for the NRA: We advance and protect.

You know pal you could have gone a long way with out mentioning my name in this fray, but since you did, I'm going to tell you this one time, and only once, I am not going to boast an organization, just so it will make you feel good, I have told you before, that I do not like the fact that the NRA has compromised on some issues, that I felt should not have been compromised on, and you can not accept that, so just in case you have forgotten, this is a free Country, and I, like you, have the right to our opinions, on any subject, and we are not always going to agree, so here is a point of fact, if I had chose to vote on your poll question, I would have done so openly, and you would have known it was me that did it, I would not hide behind any form of anonymity, from the likes of you, and I strongly resent the implication by you that I would, in the future please just leave me out of your Childish attempts to make accusations that are unfounded, better yet just leave me out of your statements altogether. I simply do not understand you people from the New England area that seem to think you are smarter than other people in the country, perhaps one of these days you will stop pulling your trousers up over your brains and accept other people as they are instead of how you think they should be.

 

[savery]

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Somewhat disagree, because:

They compromise too much. I'd like to see them take a little firmer stance.

On the other hand, they have a lot of clout that is generally seen as pro gun, so this makes up (a little) for their softness.

I'd like to see them take up the positions of the GoA (i'm a member of both) and then we'd be getting somewhere.

 

[Demarest]

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I've come to appreciate Tomahawk's posts always. But I half wish he hadn't brought up VCDL because he's taken the gusto from the point I was going to make

1st freedom made a good point up front about the all or nothing's. Sadly, it's full of holes and demonstrably inferior.

When somebody has stolen five million dollars from you, you don't ask for a grand back once a month. If you ask for the five million, you won't get it all back. At least not all at once. But at least you didn't low-ball what was YOURS to begin with. Of course I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about that which SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. We are indebted and to a dramatic extent. The debt is large and we know compromise will be what takes place. So shoot higher so the compromise is truer.

Anti's already talk about the NRA as if it's some juggernaut that has the US in its pocket. I've always said that if somebody's going to talk shit about you, you should at least have the luxury of it being true. They say monster? Show what a monster can really do. The VERY REASON they do so is to cull their efforts before they begin. Why would we willfully concede that.

I live in Ohio, where we have OFCC. They lose members for being too cutesy with the other side. I know a guy in Virginia and have read much about the VCDL. They lose members for being too voracious. Both accomplish much. As a purist libertarian, I am more inspired when I read of VCDL's and JPFO's tenacity. Know what else? Those with their eyes on the prize and not making pit stops to picnic with the enemy are the ones that stay united.

Finally, for all we know, the NRA could be soft BECAUSE some of us are willing to stand up and preach that all or nothing gets you nothing. The Second Amendment was enumerated to preserve our right to be able to keep our leaders accountable by force. If we elect to instead TALK with them, even with a collective voice such as a FORCEFUL NRA, they should prefer it.

They can only take from us what we give them.

 

[Kelly J]

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savery wrote:

Somewhat disagree, because:

They compromise too much. I'd like to see them take a little firmer stance.

On the other hand, they have a lot of clout that is generally seen as pro gun, so this makes up (a little) for their softness.

I'd like to see them take up the positions of the GoA (i'm a member of both) and then we'd be getting somewhere.

I am of the opinion that the NRA states "they are here to protect, and defend the 2 Amendment, to preserve our right to Keep, and bear arms". Great but how can they do this if they negotiate, and compromise them away, to placate the other side, I fail to understand that, a compromise if you would classify it as such is perhaps, "as the NRA, we will not campain against you, if you do not try to pass laws, that deny, restrict, or make any attempt to control our guns, in any way". I could live with that but to openly give in to their agenda, is not what I would want, and frankly, the NICS is giving in to their agenda, plain and simple, and that was a NRA Program instituted to appease the Brady Camp, granted it is better than Brady but it should not be there at all, Brady or NICS!

 

[Tomahawk]

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Demarest wrote:

I know a guy in Virginia and have read much about the VCDL. They lose members for being too voracious.

I don't know where you heard that! I have been associating with VCDL members at meetings and events for years, and I can say two things:

1. VCDL does not rant or rave or act looney. We politely discuss matters of law and then try to get the bad ones changed. Unlike some of the fringe groups out there, VCDL has some of the calmest, most level-headed leadership. VCDL is not "no compromise", rather, they are "compromise only in the forward direction, get even more next year".

2. I have never once heard any member talk about quitting because the group was going too far. Ever. In fact, the only people I know who quit were ones who moved out of state and just let their membership expire. A few Virginia ex-pats maintain their memberships after they leave.

Now there are organizations out there who have tried very hard to portray VCDL as too radical, maybe that is the source of your information. One of them is an NRA-affiliated sports group inVirginia (name withheld, you know who you are) who published a scathing slam piece in their newsletter in which they gloated about how happy they were that VCDL's legislative efforts to remove restrictions on carrying had been thwarted because they were, in the words of the newsletter, "too radical".

I read that newsletter at a gunshow soon after I moved to Virginia, and decided, based on that article alone, that that particular group was worthless and that I would track down VCDL and consider joining them. Years have gone by, and most of the "too radical" measures VCDL was pushing for have come to pass. Statewide open carry became possible because of VCDL (pre-emption), and thus, OCDO was founded by two VCDL members. We wouldn't be having this discussion on this website without grass-roots activism.

So I have a chip on my shoulder about these shooting sports groups and the NRA. I support their cause of course, but they're willing to sacrifice my rights to keep what they've got.

So let's hear it for grassroots groups as I toss yet another stack of NRA junkmail in the trashcan.

 

[Citizen]

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Tomahawk wrote:

Demarest wrote:

I know a guy in Virginia and have read much about the VCDL. They lose members for being too voracious.

SNIP I don't know where you heard that! I have been associating with VCDL members at meetings and events for years, and I can say two things:

So let's hear it for grassroots groups as I toss yet another stack of NRA junkmail in the trashcan.

There was that one fella who couldn't think past the end of his fixed idea that all police are good. The one who fussed about VCDL's outrage over the Tony's incident in Manassas; the one who fussed about it at the March VCDL meeting. I seem to recall that he called himself a member. I hadn't seen him at any prior meetings, however. And haven't seen him since.

YAAAAA! Grass-roots 2A groups!!!

Rah, rah, Sis, Boom, Bah!

Who will make the anti's leave?

Philip, Philip, Phil Van Cleave!

(OK, so it needs some work.)

 

[longwatch]

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The members VCDL gains indirect response to its actions well out numbers those very few it loses.

Here is my list of why I am no longer an NRA member, in no particular order.

1. No support of National Park carry reform when 43 other RKBA organizations could get together and push it. http://vcdl.org/

2. Tacit approval of closing the gun show loophole. See the Webb NRA Survey

3. Their attempt to sabotage Heller v. DC. Robert A. Levy: Should Congress or the courts decide D.C. gun ban’s fate?


4. Their failure to support to pro gun candidates from major parties in order to maintain their endorsement percentage.

5. Constant mail asking for money, and spam trying to sell me NRA Wines!

6. Their recent sellout in congress after Virginia Tech.

7. Their position that no one should have a gun in a school ever!
http://www.nrahq.org/transcripts/denver_wlp.asp
[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.

I can go on but its enough for me to part ways with the NRA.
[/font]

 

[Demarest]

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Tomahawk wrote:

2. I have never once heard any member talk about quitting because the group was going too far. Ever.

My mistake. In an effort to use comparitive language, I stated the wrong sentiment. I had heard that there were people that would not join because, as you said, VCDL was too radical. Apart from that, I think my post indicates that I appreciate "too radical." I wish more groups were as focused on moving forward.

 

[Citizen]

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They're coming on line even as we write. I think there have been2 or 3 CDL's started in other states within the last few months.

Even OCDO is spreading. When I first started here almost everybody was from Virginia.