Easter celebration

[sudden valley gunner]

No. Christ miraculously created more actual loaves and fishes. Keynsians* create vast numbers of little pieces of paper with pictures of loaves and fishes, then pretend the pieces of paper are the actual loaves and fishes. Of course, the pretend pictures of loaves and fishes steal their perceived value from real loaves and fishes. Worse, they print so many of these little pieces of paper, they are constantly diluting the value of the little pieces of paper already in the system. So, last month's pieces of paper are worth less. And, just to make sure nobody easily escapes, they force everybody to accept these pretend pictures of loaves and fishes.

The Keynsian's scheme of pretend loaves and fishes does smell fishy; I'll give them that.

LOL...yes it does smell fishy. They do want the public to believe they are saviors.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

News flash. The free market even without the "judeo/christian tempering" is great for the hungry and the poor. Not nice to insult the non believers and believers of other faiths.

 

[utbagpiper]

News flash. The free market even without the "judeo/christian tempering" is great for the hungry and the poor. Not nice to insult the non believers and believers of other faiths.

No insult intended....indeed specifically attempted to avoid it.

To wit:

But when practiced in a society tempered by Judeo-Christian (or similar) teachings and beliefs about caring for the poor, being honest & ethical, and having some thought for posterity and neighbors, works better than any other system in recorded, secular history. It can also work very well in a diverse society with much diversity of religious beliefs so long as the social values of integrity, charity, and regard for society are in place.

Please do not look for offense where none is intended, nor make a man an offender for a word.

There are good, ethical atheists. Many men do seem to benefit from religious teachings and among those that have influenced our society, Judeo-Christian teachings are dominant and so bear mention in any discussion of the social values that temper technically legal, but perhaps undesirable conduct.

Charles

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Atheists are full of love and caring too without any supernatural beliefs.

 

[georg jetson]

Atheists are full of love and caring too without any supernatural beliefs.

Well, except for the supernatural belief that there's no supernatural.

As far as being "full of love and caring", I agree. I think the only difference between Christians, Muslims, Atheists, is motivation. What would motivate an atheist to love or care?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Well, except for the supernatural belief that there's no supernatural.

As far as being "full of love and caring", I agree. I think the only difference between Christians, Muslims, Atheists, is motivation. What would motivate an atheist to love or care?

Love and care.

 

[utbagpiper]

Atheists are full of love and caring too without any supernatural beliefs.

Some are, some are not.

Which can be said of every statistically significantly sized group, I believe.

The difference is that many religious beliefs specifically include teachings to love and care for others. So when a Christian, Jew, Buddhist, etc isn't full of love and caring, he is living and acting contrary to his professed beliefs.

Since atheism is, technically, a lack of belief in God, it does not include any beliefs whatsoever of itself. Some atheists may choose to adopt and live beliefs about loving and caring for their fellow man. But it is just as rational for an atheist to adopt a Darwinian view of human life and then engage in eugenics and even genocide. The Nazis and communists were/are the preeminent example of just how badly people can treat each other when they choose to adopt belief systems that do not include guiding principles of love and respect.

A bad man can't be a good Christian, but he can be living completely in harmony with what atheism can permit.

This is a thread about Easter. If a focus on the goodness of Christ and the benefits of His teachings to those who try to live them is offensive....

Charles

 

[georg jetson]

Love and care.

Amen to that.

 

[Citizen]

Love and care.

+1 Its in human nature, not an external motivation.

 

[georg jetson]

+1 Its in human nature, not an external motivation.

Hmmmmmm. It's the Christian perspective that love and caring are the antithesis to human nature.

Loving and caring seem to be in agreement with natural law, but the hard part is to get human nature to align with natural law. As children, we need to be taught to care and love. Selfishness rules our early years and all to often, our later years.

 

[utbagpiper]

+1 Its in human nature, not an external motivation.

Hmmmmmm. It's the Christian perspective that love and caring are the antithesis to human nature.

Loving and caring seem to be in agreement with natural law, but the hard part is to get human nature to align with natural law. As children, we need to be taught to care and love. Selfishness rules our early years.

Some might observe that love and caring are part of the nature of God. And that since man has a spark of the divine in him, he has capacity and yearning to foster and exhibit such traits, that he can only be truly happy if he embraces that portion of himself from the divine. But he is beset by temptations, by the nature of a fallen and mortal world, and by his own legitimate needs all of which tend to encourage him away from the right road that will lead to happiness.

It is the struggle of mortality to tame our passions, resist temptations, and build up the goodness available within or to us. Christianity teaches that this goodness is a gift from God, part of His grace.

Charles

 

[Citizen]

Hmmmmmm. It's the Christian perspective that love and caring are the antithesis to human nature.

Loving and caring seem to be in agreement with natural law, but the hard part is to get human nature to align with natural law. As children, we need to be taught to care and love. Selfishness rules our early years.

I understand.

I think it a fundamental error to conclude that human nature is at its core bad. Certainly people are capable of a lot of...shall we say...shortcomings. In the context of this thread--fall short of the glory of God. But, we are created in His image. And, I think that core is basically good. A whole lot of bad can overlay that. But, the basic nature is good.

Just one example. A fella can confess his harms, gain relief, and even sometimes thereby erase the compulsion to commit those harms again. Nobody ever got relief from confessing to doing something good.

Thus, I would say, human nature already aligns with natural law. Its his harms that either seem or are at variance with natural law.

 

[georg jetson]

I understand.

I think it a fundamental error to conclude that human nature is at its core bad. Certainly people are capable of a lot of...shall we say...shortcomings. In the context of this thread--fall short of the glory of God. But, we are created in His image. And, I think that core is basically good. A whole lot of bad can overlay that. But, the basic nature is good.

Thus, I would say, human nature already aligns with natural law. Its his harms that either seem or are at variance with natural law.

We were created in his image, but we fell... in the context of this thread.

It makes no sense to me that if our nature is good, that we must be taught how to be "good". it would make sense that if we by nature align with its laws, would have to be taught the contrary.

 

[Citizen]

We were created in his image, but we fell... in the context of this thread.

It makes no sense to me that if our nature is good, that we must be taught how to be "good". it would make sense that if we by nature align with its laws, would have to be taught the contrary.

I guess I take it less that we have to be taught to be good, and more that our harmful or less charitable impulses have to be restrained until we rediscover our basic goodnesses.

I was a selfish little snot when I was a kid. It wasn't until I was a young adult that I discovered within myself an already-existing inclination toward goodness on a certain specific point.

Perhaps I might phrase the idea as we less have to be taught to be good, than I am grateful others can help me re-awaken within myself the basic goods, point by point, that I either refused to recognize, or buried while trying to justify the harms I did my fellows.

Earlier I mentioned the example of relief from confession. Here I will mention another example. Philosophers. Most of us have read some sort of philosophical writing that awoke and inspired something within us. It touched something in us. It couldn't have touched something if there was not already something there to touch.

For any reader, not just GJ: Really, it only takes a little introspection to free oneself from this accusation that one is basically bad. It surrenders that easily. From there, it only takes a little more looking at people and history to put it to bed permanently. All it takes is focusing on the good instead of the bad. I think you will quickly find there is a lot more good than bad in yourself, people, and history. Regarding history, you just have to look past what passes for history--government, war, etc., and look to what the rest of the people, unmentioned by history, were doing.

 

[HPmatt]

We enjoyed a very nice Easter celebration. Our church is typically too full at Easter for the faithful to attend the 11am service, so we enjoyed probably our 20th anniversary Easter Brunch with our family friends at the country club. Reflecting on the passage of time - family grows up and some have moved to the church triumphant, Easter comes into better focus of the true joy that awaits us. The sacrifice of Christ for the sins of all humankind awaits those that accept him. Such a blessing to celebrate with friends and family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[utbagpiper]

We enjoyed a very nice Easter celebration. Our church is typically too full at Easter for the faithful to attend the 11am service, so we enjoyed probably our 20th anniversary Easter Brunch with our family friends at the country club. Reflecting on the passage of time - family grows up and some have moved to the church triumphant, Easter comes into better focus of the true joy that awaits us. The sacrifice of Christ for the sins of all humankind awaits those that accept him. Such a blessing to celebrate with friends and family.

Amen.

It is not the fear of death, but the love of life and of family and friends that helps encourage me to belief.

The witness of God to my soul, and fruits of trying (however haltingly and imperfectly) to live as Christ taught, are the evidence of His truth.

Charles

 

[georg jetson]

I guess I take it less that we have to be taught to be good, and more that our harmful or less charitable impulses have to be restrained until we rediscover our basic goodnesses.

I was a selfish little snot when I was a kid. It wasn't until I was a young adult that I discovered within myself an already-existing inclination toward goodness on a certain specific point.

Perhaps I might phrase the idea that we less have to be taught to be good, than I am grateful others can help me re-awaken within myself the basic goods, point by point, that I either refused to recognize, or buried while trying to justify the harms I did my fellows.

Earlier I mentioned the example of relief from confession. Here I will mention another example. Philosophers. Most of us have read some sort of philosophical writing that awoke and inspired something within us. It touched something in us. It couldn't have touched something if there was not already something there to touch.

Refering to the first two sentences, Ill tell you what makes sense to me and it's this:

What you call our basic goodness seems to me to be an awareness of the natural law. I'm not saying we don't have an awareness, I'm saying we go against natural law despite our awareness. When I do things from lack of care or love, I'm aware of that. My nature seems to always be in conflict with love and care, otherwise I wouldn't always have to try and love and care.

The "awakening" or "iinspiring" I felt was that I knew what I should've been doing, but wasn't doing it because of my nature.

 

[Citizen]

Refering to the first two sentences, Ill tell you what makes sense to me and it's this:

What you call our basic goodness seems to me to be an awareness of the natural law. I'm not saying we don't have an awareness, I'm saying we go against natural law despite our awareness. When I do things from lack of care or love, I'm aware of that. My nature seems to always be in conflict with love and care, otherwise I wouldn't always have to try and love and care.

The "awakening" or "iinspiring" I felt was that I knew what I should've been doing, but wasn't doing it because of my nature.

Yep!! I know exactly what you mean!!

I would suggest only one slight little thing for your consideration. Was it your nature that was telling you to do the thing you knew you shouldn't have? Or, was it your nature that was telling you not to do it? Is it your awareness that is your nature? Or, is it that occasional impulse to do something despite that awareness?

 

[georg jetson]

Yep!! I know exactly what you mean!!

I would suggest only one slight little thing for your consideration. Was it your nature that was telling you to do the thing you knew you shouldn't have? Or, was it your nature that was telling you not to do it? Is it your awareness that is your nature? Or, is it that occasional impulse to do something despite that awareness?

Well, I've considered that at length. If my nature told me to do things in line with natural law, I'd have no conflict. However, I've experienced a lot of conflict.

 

[Citizen]

Well, I've considered that at length. If my nature told me to do things in line with natural law, I'd have no conflict. However, I've experienced a lot of conflict.

I would submit that those conflicts are not our basic nature. In the sense that the impulses sure seem to arise within from within ourselves, I agree that they necessarily are somehow connected to our nature. But, I would not say they are our basic nature.

Another example. People do way too many things that are not harmful day-in and day-out, decent things, for those occasional conflicts to be our basic nature. If that sort of stuff was our basic nature, we'd still be wearing fur pants, and would all be killing, robbing, raping, and defrauding each other. No, no. I think the good actions and impulses happen far, far, far more often than the conflicts.