Farm & Fleet Firearm Prohibition

[bhancock]

Rebellion

I guess I am not understanding here.

The point as I read it is not that on an individual basis we can carry in Farm & Fleet despite a corporate policy (kinda sneakily getting away with something) to the contrary but rather, that they have a corporate policy that bans our carry on their property. I don't like that.

The point is not that you can get away with carrying, but that they either have a corporate policy in line with the state law or they do not. If not, they do not get my business regardless of what is happening on the ground. In my opinion, it does no good to enter their store until this is changed. As a matter of fact, it is counterproductive to our cause. Again; IMHO.

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong. Perhaps someone can correct me here.

I guess my point in carrying there was to push them off the fence. I f they say they have a corporate policy, yet don't enforce it by asking us to leave or post signs and their store managers and employees are in favor of the right, then they need to be pushed to clarify their position. At the corporate level they may not notice a few missing customers, but at the store level if they ask me to leave, I get a chance to tell them why. At the corporate level they are not responding to correspondence. I suggest that we either push them exercising the right and force them to take a position on it or start store level correspondence to make them realize the lost sales.

I obviously do not like the policy or agree with it and think it is an assault on freedom. Somehow their position needs to come out of the closet and into open public view. I don't think we should let them have a quiet prohibition against a right of freedom.

 

[hardballer]

I guess my point in carrying there was to push them off the fence. I f they say they have a corporate policy, yet don't enforce it by asking us to leave or post signs and their store managers and employees are in favor of the right, then they need to be pushed to clarify their position. At the corporate level they may not notice a few missing customers, but at the store level if they ask me to leave, I get a chance to tell them why. At the corporate level they are not responding to correspondence. I suggest that we either push them exercising the right and force them to take a position on it or start store level correspondence to make them realize the lost sales.

I obviously do not like the policy or agree with it and think it is an assault on freedom. Somehow their position needs to come out of the closet and into open public view. I don't think we should let them have a quiet prohibition against a right of freedom.

I see, that is cool and I understand your point as well. That would be a good tipping off point.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

So, Corp. F&F has no gun policy and many store managers will not enforce that policy, I think those store managers should be celebrated, sort of like we celebrate a DA that will not enforce state statutes.

If we have issue with Corp's no gun policy, then let's find a store manager that DOES enforce it, and pickett THAT store.

 

[Mlutz]

Gander Mountain will match prices... Thats all I really have to say about that... Other than a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that is no longer shopping at f&f.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

Gander Mountain will match prices... Thats all I really have to say about that... Other than a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that is no longer shopping at f&f.

Sorry, but I won't stop shopping at FnF until I see the sign or they ask me to leave, but I will travel to pickett a store that does enforce it.

Where did all this get started? WHO got kicked out of WHAT store location. Many of us shop at many different store locations w/o ANY problem. How did this issue get started anyway?

 

[Mlutz]

Sorry, but I won't stop shopping at FnF until I see the sign or they ask me to leave, but I will travel to pickett a store that does enforce it.

Where did all this get started? WHO got kicked out of WHAT store location. Many of us shop at many different store locations w/o ANY problem. How did this issue get started anyway?

If my take on this is correct, you WILL NOT stand with a member? Good to know... The next time YOU need help, I'll just sit at home and do nothing... Baraboo, is where it "all got started". I was asked "to leave that (my firearm) in the car next time." (By the stores manager.) Again, the Baraboo store is the location with an "issue". However, just because YOU do not have a "problem" (being asked to leave) does not mean f&f does not HAVE A POLICY that says NO GUNS. PERIOD! So, myself (and another member, again I will not name drop.) were asked NOT to oc in the store, that is how it got started.

Oh yeah, if you would like to be "asked to leave" visit the Baraboo store...

 

[Mlutz]

If I didn't mind confrontation, I'd probably OC in Valley View Mall myself. There are no signs and there is nothing about the "no weapons policy" on their website. Apparently the only way to know about the policy is to carry in there and get seen or reported, or to go to the security office and ask them yourself.

So just like other companies that have a hidden "no firearms" policy...just keep on carrying there until you are informed of the policy by management. They can't expect you to follow the policy when it's not posted for everyone to see. It should be posted for everyone to see before you even walk into the store. That way you can turn around and go shopping somewhere else.

Edit to add:
But when I am informed that a company has a no firearms policy, I do try to avoid them. I went to F&F a few times to buy cheap ammo locally. They even had a 10% off all ammo one time. But because of hearing about this (and because I'm poor and got enough rounds), I won't be going back.

I guess after reading this I can say... I have oc'd in the mall, in fact it was right after the picnic in West Salem. No problems at all. I even walked past several "mall cops" who did nothing. Will I go there again, I doubt it.

 

[apjonas]

Two Points

Not that clear...

While I agree that we shouldn't go to stores that don't support our rights, we must remember a couple things.

A private business has rights as well. You can't sue a business for not allowing you to exercise your rights. You can only if they discriminate against a protected class, for example, if they don't let you OC because you are 40+, black, muslim.

*****Age doesn't work (at least federally). White and Presbyterian (or Asian and Jewish) work as well.

I suppose you MIGHT be able to sue after the fact if, for example, it is posted as a gun free zone, you normally carry, you didn't because of the sign and then you get shot by a BG while inside. I assume you could make an argument that the business exposed you to undue risk because they didn't allow you a means of self-defense.

*****You can always sue. Winning is something else. You could make the same argument if the business didn't have an armed guard. I don't think you'd get very far.

Anyhow our individual rights aren't any greater than the businesses rights.

If you don't like it, don't shop there.

On a separate sub topic of this, I would think that if I OC'ed in F&F after reading this forum, I could defend myself from a trespassing charge by saying I wasn't directly notified of their policy, which I wasn't. As soon as I had the 1st real encounter with LEO or F&F management telling me my firearm was not welcome, then on subsequent visits I would be liable if I OC'ed.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

*****Age doesn't work (at least federally). White and Presbyterian (or Asian and Jewish) work as well.



*****You can always sue. Winning is something else.

I thought 40+ was a protected class. Oh well.

As for the suing, I guess I was saying the same as you. Sue all you want, you'd need a very weird judge to allow it to continue.

 

[Cobra469]

If anyone here is saying that they have no reason to believe F&F has a no guns policy, you're wrong. You have at least some reason, perhaps not as strong as your reason to believe the sun will rise again tomorrow, but a reason nonetheless.

And if you believe there is such a policy-- but because it has never been expressed personally to you, you will continue to shop there-- then you're saying you'll knowingly support a business with an anti-gun policy in place (and disrespect their policy to boot.)

My statement was just stating that I have no legal reason to believe it just because it was posted on a public forum. Regardless in this instance with F&F I don't shop there anyhow so my refusal to shop there really does nothing. But for example Chase Banks policy (supposedly) since there are no signs and their corporate policies are not posted on their website or any other public official place I will CHOOSE to continue as I always have until notified different by a employee in an official capacity who hold the authority to speak on behalf of the business.

Outside of that if a particular store has a problem with it I would not shop there. Chase Bank on Capital St has metal detectors. Therefore I go to a different branch. Our choice of whether or not we shop at a particular business is always our choice as an individual. If we are shopping at a location that has not had any problems than I don't see anything particularly wrong with that. After all different managers may or may not have issues. If a particular manager has no issues then I don't necessarily see what is wrong with that. Even though the profits still go to the fat cats in the board room each store is ranked on its performance. If you can't change the big man's mind about their policy maybe the local manager will be persuaded when their store drops in sales while the neighbor store rises.

 

[IcrewUH60]

So this letter means nothing?
"Thank you for your inquiry. Blain's Farm & Fleet does have a "Weapons Free Environment" policy. Our policy reads in part, "To safeguard our employees, our customers and the general public, we absolutely prohibit any employee, vendor, supplier or customer to bring or possess firearms (including but not limited to handguns, regardless of any authorized permit), explosives or any dangerous weapons or objects on Blain's Farm & Fleet premises or at Blain's Farm & Fleet sponsored events."

Best Regards,
Gary H.
Vice President - Loss Prevention / Risk Management "

(Thanks Shotgun.)
So even after reading this if you were to go into a f&f you could say you were not "legally informed" of the policy? If thats the case, you are saying I would be "ok" to carry in any other f&f until told not to do so by the manager there?

I wonder if police are allowed in their stores then?

Or retired LEOs with concealed carry permits? Does FF sell knives or nail guns, or "any dangerous weapons or objects "? Sounds like they are trying to cover their a**es.

For me, it's Home Depot anyway - all military (veterans included) get 10% off everything, everyday. They don't advertise it, so you have to ask for the discount and be prepared to show proof of service (DD-214 or ID Card). FF does not offer military discount.

 

[Shotgun]

Does FF sell knives or nail guns, or "any dangerous weapons or objects "?

They used to sell long guns at the Madison east location, but that ended some years ago. They sell knives and ammunition and pellet guns still. I spent a lot of money on ammo and other items over years. Used to be at least a weekly shopper there, and OC'd in there a number of times, but I haven't set foot inside since I learned of their anti-gun policy a few months ago.

 

[MKEgal]

I just skimmed the thread, and don't see where anyone has yet mentioned that
Fleet Farm
&
Farm & Fleet
are different stores, different companies, and most likely different policies.

I made the mistake myself in an earlier post - I've been to F&F in Oak Creek and FF in Men. Falls & the one near Fletcher's in Waukesha, OCing with no problem.

 

[Doug Huffman]

Unfortunately there is a parallel thread where that point was made, that there is Mills' and Blaine's FF.

 

[littlewolf]

I just skimmed the thread, and don't see where anyone has yet mentioned that
Fleet Farm
&
Farm & Fleet
are different stores, different companies, and most likely different policies.

I made the mistake myself in an earlier post - I've been to F&F in Oak Creek and FF in Men. Falls & the one near Fletcher's in Waukesha, OCing with no problem.

YES Blains (Oak Creek) Mills ( Germantown) I OC at all of them and Mills in Appleton,Waupaca, Clintonville,Stevens Point no problems.

 

[Terkeytoes]

I wonder if police are allowed in their stores then?

There are two very opposing issues, at least in Dane County, an on duty LEO is able to carry everywhere, as far as I know off duty sheriff deputies are considered on duty at all times and are allowed to carry as they please as well because they are LEO.

You have an interesting question.

I recent OC'd at F&F in Dane County and didnt have any problems with employees or managers at all. They were all polite and quite helpful in showing me where I could find what I needed, specifically looked at the doors on my way in to see if there was anything posted and couldnt find anything. Upon hearing the comments on here though I doubt I will continue shopping there though.

 

[IcrewUH60]

There are two very opposing issues, at least in Dane County, an on duty LEO is able to carry everywhere, as far as I know off duty sheriff deputies are considered on duty at all times and are allowed to carry as they please as well because they are LEO.

You have an interesting question.

I recent OC'd at F&F in Dane County and didnt have any problems with employees or managers at all. They were all polite and quite helpful in showing me where I could find what I needed, specifically looked at the doors on my way in to see if there was anything posted and couldnt find anything. Upon hearing the comments on here though I doubt I will continue shopping there though.

Well, at least almost anywhere when they are in the performance of official duty. They can't just come into my house and walk around armed without a warrant because it is private property. I know it's not open to the public, so it is a different situation, plus I have a "No LEOs allowed to go armed without permission" rule at my house. However, F&F is private property also and if the post provided earlier is true, then it appears that they have a "no tolerance policy" against firearms, period. If an LEO is "just shopping" as a customer, on or off duty, then they are violating the stores' policy...I mean a policy is a policy, right? and IF they are going to allow LEOs to violate the policy at face value, then why can't I?

Seems to me that they need to change their policy to add an exception for "lawful carry" and then we are all covered! :shocker:

 

[Captain Nemo]

Terkytoes:
Please cite the state or county statute that says that county sheriff deputies are considered on-duty 24/7. County sheriff deputies are regulated by the county. Some individual counties may have such a policy but I know of no state wide policy. I'm sure most LEO unions would require pay for time considered on-duty. Few counties could afford such a cost. Deputies may be subject to on-call 24/7 with immediate approval for on-duty. I don't say this to start a contest but it is important to know if there is such a state wide or even county policy, because, it could impact the GFSZ argument many of us have used that says leo's not operating in official capacity are prohibited from carrying a loaded and uncased firearm in the 1000 foot buffer zone.

 

[J.Gleason]

All LEO are protected under the LEOSA for CCW of a firearm. Even in the GFSZ.

 

[Flipper]

Shopped at the Dogeville Farm & Fleet today carrying the "Little Iron" (Magnum Research Micro Eagle) in the Jim doyle approved manner. Employees and customers could have cared less. Appears that Farm and Fleet has a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" firearm policy.