Filming/Recording OC Encounters

[Jeff Hayes]

I think neither is called for. So because some cops bait civilians, some civilians should bait cops to get even? Also, what is your definition of harassed? Being approached? Being told that they got a call? I feel like the smoother the encounter goes for the officer, the more likely it is that he/she will be cool with the next OC'er.

I'm not saying that people don't have the right to do it. I'm not even suggesting that they stop. I merely noticed that these people have an agenda. I didn't realize that there had to be an agenda to OC other than to protect yourself.

So what would you call the officers behavior that is stopping you for doing nothing unlawful.

 

[HandyHamlet]

These guys were looking for officers. How is that not baiting? So you want to look for officers and test how knowledgeable they are? I'm sorry pal but that is baiting to me. Also, why don't you go ahead and explain to the class how to bait someone. You seem to be doing a pretty good job baiting someone who just wanted to discuss something that is new to him.

So the troll has no answers.

How does lawfully going about one's day constitute baiting anyone.

Answer the question.

 

[MattinWA]

Olive Garden changed their policy to allow lawful carry. When was your issue?

Few weeks ago... may not have been a corporate policy shift so much as a few ignorant, self important managers, either way I will not be returning.

 

[bebop4one]

So the troll has no answers.

How does lawfully going about one's day constitute baiting anyone.

Answer the question.

Meh I don't like you so I'm going to ignore you from now on.

 

[MattinWA]

So the troll has no answers.

How does lawfully going about one's day constitute baiting anyone.

Answer the question.

I believe he is referring to the people who carry long guns with the obvious goal of engaging a police officer, to judge reactions in different cities. I dont believe baiting is the correct term, and I dont think the OP ment baited as the exact legal definition.

The OP recently moved from california, and years upon years of anti gun indoctrination are not reversed in a month. I think we should be guiding OP to literature and cases to help him overcome the brainwashing, not to scold and belittle him.

It was not too different from the reactions I might have had while living in california. Its a whole different world there, not just because of gun laws, the mindset of the majority of the population is vastly different.

Help him heal to be a better citizen, please don't discourage any supporter of open carry from posting opinions, especially one admittedly so new to it.

Just my two cents and my opinion.

 

[HandyHamlet]

I believe...

That of course is your prerogative.

If an officer is told to respond to a MWG call by dispatch, they have the choice just to not show up?? Can you prove this?

This ain't the response of a guy just here to learn. My experience.

 

[509rifas]

Meh I don't like you so I'm going to ignore you from now on.

You still didn't answer.
Testing LE's knowledge is not baiting, especially since it's something officers are expected to know. Some people even call recording police even while unarmed to be baiting, since it's something some don't like but is a consitutionally enumerated right.
Short of any conduct meant to cause concern and a call to police isn't baiting though.

Welcome to Washington.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

The OP recently moved from california, and years upon years of anti gun indoctrination are not reversed in a month.

Matt

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Freedom is a tough concept when you have never experienced it. I just ask for transplants to stop expecting the people in their new world to behave and have the same standards that they seemingly so gratefully left behind. The OP is thrilled to be able to OC but then desires to behave in a manner that caused the loss of gun rights where he came from. So he moves here and in a round about manner immediately chastises the locals for standing up for their rights.

 

[HandyHamlet]

...So he moves here and in a round about manner immediately chastises the locals for standing up for their rights.

And Youtube. Without walking a mile in their shoes. And dodges questions while arguing here. Insists open carry is baiting yet he is excited to open carry. I'm done, He's your troll now.

 

[MattinWA]

And Youtube. Without walking a mile in their shoes. And dodges questions while arguing here. Insists open carry is baiting yet he is excited to open carry. I'm done, He's your troll now.

Again, he is referring to open carry of long guns, an activity discouraged by this very forum, the open carry forum. People open carrying long guns with the intent to cause an interaction with police, the same reason it is prohibited from endorsement by this site. It is obvious to me that this is what he has a problem with... I see one closed minded troll here and its not the OP

if I wanted to make people feel stupid for posting things on the internet, I would get a facebook account

 

[bebop4one]

The OP recently moved from california, and years upon years of anti gun indoctrination are not reversed in a month.

Matt

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Freedom is a tough concept when you have never experienced it. I just ask for transplants to stop expecting the people in their new world to behave and have the same standards that they seemingly so gratefully left behind. The OP is thrilled to be able to OC but then desires to behave in a manner that caused the loss of gun rights where he came from. So he moves here and in a round about manner immediately chastises the locals for standing up for their rights.

Actually, the people on youtube weren't necessarily from Washington. I believe a few were from Maine, Oregon, and one other state that I thought was Utah. I don't think I behaved in a manner that caused me or anyone to lose their rights in California. Not recording a LE encounter is not standing up for my rights? Since being here I've OC'd for the first time, joined an OC forum, and applied for my CPL. Am I missing something here?

 

[bebop4one]

Again, he is referring to open carry of long guns, an activity discouraged by this very forum, the open carry forum. People open carrying long guns with the intent to cause an interaction with police, the same reason it is prohibited from endorsement by this site. It is obvious to me that this is what he has a problem with... I see one closed minded troll here and its not the OP

if I wanted to make people feel stupid for posting things on the internet, I would get a facebook account

True blue, Matt. Yeah that's what I was saying. The people were looking for cops and they were wearing rifles on their backs. Anyway, this is a sore subject I guess and I'm going to just let it go. Maybe I don't understand yet because I haven't been a member long enough. I'll make sure to do my research so that I can be more informed. For now, I'm going to try open carrying again and get a feel for it.

 

[MattinWA]

Actually, the people on youtube weren't necessarily from Washington. I believe a few were from Maine, Oregon, and one other state that I thought was Utah. I don't think I behaved in a manner that caused me or anyone to lose their rights in California. Not recording a LE encounter is not standing up for my rights? Since being here I've OC'd for the first time, joined an OC forum, and applied for my CPL. Am I missing something here?

Ur good, haters gonna hate...
Enticing police to respond to you by carrying a long gun , then being an arrogant ***** when they do respond is wrong, they will come, it's their job

Enticing police to respond to you by carrying a long gun, then they try to illegally demand your ID, then you be an arrogant *****, because they are obviously overstepping their bounds, is all right in my opinion.

It's not something I would do, but to each his own....
I think that's the distinction...
just my opinion

Most of these videos there is a distinct moment when the videographer turns unfriendly, and it is usually when a cop oversteps his limits, watch these videos very closely.

 

[Flopsweat]

1

Bebop, thanks for being patient. Some of our members can be a bit much. The obnoxious ones don't represent all of us. The folks that you'll meet in Bothell are pretty decent and shouldn't give you a hard time. I've seen the type of video that you're talking about, and people who strap on a long gun, go looking for cops and start smarting off to them right off the bat are definitely baiting them in my mind. I fully agree that some cops can go way over the line also, but as has been said, that does not justify the behavior on some - SOME - of the videos out there. If you look hard enough you can find videos of folks minding their own business and just open carrying while they go about their day, only to be accosted by some belligerent, over the top bully with a badge. That's actually what most of the early videos were like. Then some copycat a$$hats decided to make the type of video you've described, and they seem to outnumber the legitimate ones now. So while you're both right to a degree, I'm going to side with you and thank you for keeping your cool while others have stooped to name calling and childish taunts. I think you'll make a good member. And welcome to OCDO!

 

[509rifas]

And Bebop, just so you know, pretty much every time you post here, somene will have a problem with what you say/what you did/how you did it, and then other people will have a problem with them and they will go off on long tangents and by the time everyone ignores the thread it will be unrecognizable to the original topic.
I got called a troll when I was new here and even accused of some other weird stuff like my handle being a sign of my gang affiliations and faking my police encounter videos.
This may be a 2A forum, but it's still the internet.
There's always going to be people that argue with you on here. It's what keeps it fun.
Again, welcome to the Washington OCDO.

 

[bebop4one]

Bebop, thanks for being patient. Some of our members can be a bit much. The obnoxious ones don't represent all of us. The folks that you'll meet in Bothell are pretty decent and shouldn't give you a hard time. I've seen the type of video that you're talking about, and people who strap on a long gun, go looking for cops and start smarting off to them right off the bat are definitely baiting them in my mind. I fully agree that some cops can go way over the line also, but as has been said, that does not justify the behavior on some - SOME - of the videos out there. If you look hard enough you can find videos of folks minding their own business and just open carrying while they go about their day, only to be accosted by some belligerent, over the top bully with a badge. That's actually what most of the early videos were like. Then some copycat a$$hats decided to make the type of video you've described, and they seem to outnumber the legitimate ones now. So while you're both right to a degree, I'm going to side with you and thank you for keeping your cool while others have stooped to name calling and childish taunts. I think you'll make a good member. And welcome to OCDO!

And Bebop, just so you know, pretty much every time you post here, somene will have a problem with what you say/what you did/how you did it, and then other people will have a problem with them and they will go off on long tangents and by the time everyone ignores the thread it will be unrecognizable to the original topic.
I got called a troll when I was new here and even accused of some other weird stuff like my handle being a sign of my gang affiliations and faking my police encounter videos.
This may be a 2A forum, but it's still the internet.
There's always going to be people that argue with you on here. It's what keeps it fun.
Again, welcome to the Washington OCDO.

Thanks to both of you. I promise I'm not on here to ruffle any feathers. I've been interested in guns my whole life. Living in CA was tough because nobody shared my hobbies of going to the range or checking out the newest rifles at Big 5. I've been called a gun nut, an extremist, a republican, a tea party'er, and all kinds of other stuff. I'm glad to have found a forum with so many people that feel the way I do. I hope I get the chance to meet some members at the events.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

True blue, Matt. Yeah that's what I was saying. The people were looking for cops and they were wearing rifles on their backs. Anyway, this is a sore subject I guess and I'm going to just let it go. Maybe I don't understand yet because I haven't been a member long enough. I'll make sure to do my research so that I can be more informed. For now, I'm going to try open carrying again and get a feel for it.

This site is dedicated to the normalizing of openly carried properly holstered pistols and I support that completely. I have to ask if carrying a slung rifle is lawful then why is it OK for the Cops to hassle a person doing just that? Either it is lawful or it is not, so many forget that this is the way OC got started and how the Cops were educated top leave OCers alone. This reminds me of the CC crowd that supports CC while dishing the OC people. Why would you support lawful OC of properly holstered pistols and not the OC of a properly slung OCed rifle. Cops should never hassle anyone for a lawful activity and that includes stopping someone that is not breaking the law no matter what they are doing.

I am glad you are interested in open carry and you are actually doing it. Most will not and that says volumes about you, I mean that in in the best way. Hang around for a while and open your eyes a bit more. This is my last comment on this subject.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I'll cut right to the chase...

bebop4one, what agency are you with?

Sworn or non-sworn?

 

[509rifas]

I'll cut right to the chase...

bebop4one, what agency are you with?

Sworn or non-sworn?

Seriously?

You know that if the cops wanted to gauge our opinions they could simply lurk on the forum like everyone else does right?
You don't have to be a cop to criticize carrying long guns. Many people on here also criticize carrying long guns and the OCDO itself "un-endorses" it. I myself don't really agree with carrying long guns any more than I agree with giving the finger at random "because it's my right." While we all have the right to carry as many black guns as our body can support, I see this project as more trying to break the stereotype that only cops and robbers have guns as a way to chip back at the piecemeal incremental gun control.
While I recognize than anyone carrying an AR15 on their back certainly has the right to do so without being treated like a criminal, I would expect LE to at least respond to the call, and they can "contact" us without detaining us, and we can converse about what we are doing with civility while not surrendering our rights. I actually do think posting videos where it is obvious we are looking for cops to play with doesn't really help. Just wearing your gun to the store does far more to normalize it.
Understand that Bebop "supposedly" comes from California where even possession of 10+ cap mags is equated with homicidal intent (and not the justifiable kind) and possession of an "unregistered" gun can get you actual prison time? Or do you think the detectives at the Somewhere Police Department were too lazy to look through individual poster history whichever lucky one of us they are investigating or the ATF gang is just looking for anyone that defend carrying long guns?

Bebop, this is what I was taking about. Welcome to the show.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Seriously?

It's not what you say, it's how you say it...

Where you headed to this evening?