First Amendment claims don’t always win

[fozzy71]

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11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

:?

 

[stainless1911]

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Ignoring the origins of this right, and the origins of government is only seeing part of the story. You cannot fully understand rights without understanding how those rights came to be.

This previous conversation is directly related to the cite you brought up.

11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

 

[Bailenforcer]

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stainless1911 wrote:

Bailenforcer wrote:

There is this thing called "context" that 99% of so called Christians fail to understand. Taking one verse from one book then trying to attach it to another verse 500 pages later is a mockery of the Bible. Romans 13 says to OBEY what? Powers?

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

So here we see Ordained by God? Right?

The New Testament (covenant) took the place of the Old Testament law, but certainother covenants between God and men were maintained. IE the promise of never having a worldwide flood, the promise of theJews being Gods chosen, The lineage of a Davidic Christ, and the curse of governmentwere maintained. In early history, the Jewish people were ruled by God through a go between, but they wanted a king like the rest of the world. God did not want this, and warned them of the problems involved with it, but the people would not relent. They wanted a king (government). God finally gave them what they thought they wanted, and it has been this way ever since. This was one of those covenants that God will not break, and is recorded in I Samuel 8. Since the New Testament was taking precedence over The Old Testament, yet this government contract of I Samuel 8 was not broken, Jesus re affirmed this state of events in Romans 13. This government is a covenant between God and man, and is basically, a curse. There are several places in the Bible that indicate that God has influence over the people who are in authority, and that he controls who does what, and who is in power and when. This is why we are to honor their authority, it is ordained by God. God rewards and punishes people according to their obedience, and sin, and one of the ways He does this is through governments and their leaders. USA used to be a Christian nation, and the rewards for that were great, so were our leaders. We basically built the world, our language dominated the other languages, we had massive wealth, we were the most powerful military, we went from the wright flyer, to the moon in less than 100 years. Then, as we turned away from God, we started losing it all, freedom, bit by bit, military power, financial leadership, language has been mixed, and many other punishments due to our sins. We have taken prayer out of schools, allowed pornography, gambling, tattooing, evolution, riotous living, drugs and alcohol,we do not honor God as a nation, and as individuals we are few and far between. these are symptoms and punishments of this sin. God gives and takes good successful leadership, and the success that leadership brings according to His will. Both good leadership, and evil. Right now, we have Obama, and his evil socialist government, appointed and ordainedby God as a punishment for the sins of our nation. One of the most important things to Americans is freedom, and the loss of it is a punishment. In order to have this loss, God has allowed certain evil men and women to gain authority of us.

Re. the comment about homosexuality and idolatry. That is correct. I would like to add though, that homosexuality is in and of itself a sin. and this sin, like all others, is without repentance, punishable by both death and hell. It is an abomination.

We agree except it's high time to get back to what kind of nation we once were and clean up this mess we allowed to happen. It's time to reform the Constitutional Government and one nation Under GOD principle. Then we regain our right to carry and get rid of the controlling influence of this creeping tyranny we have.

yes Homosexuality is a sin, but it is divine recompense for Idolatry and it's a double whammy as they call it, he is saying OPk you want to live in sins IE Idolatry, then I will give you sins. Read Romans one carefully and you can see where it begins and the results, Paul even lists other sins that come after the homosexuality.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

It is a piling on of consequences, just like a prosecutor who piles on many charges when you do one wrong act, you wind up with many charges. same principle.


We need to return to our roots as a Nation or become extinct soon as a FREE people.

 

[Bailenforcer]

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stainless1911 wrote:

Ignoring the origins of this right, and the origins of government is only seeing part of the story. You cannot fully understand rights without understanding how those rights came to be.

This previous conversation is directly related to the cite you brought up.

11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

Exactly it is a demonstration of cause and effect.

 

[stainless1911]

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Absolutely, bailenforcer, I couldnt agree more.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

All we were doing is following rule #7


7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

 

[CoonDog]

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As long as .gov claims a monopoly on the use of force, the authority to initiate force against others, and the authority to tax internally, it will ALWAYS result in tyranny. Merely starting over in 1791 will eventually result in the same gargantuan fed.gov that exists today. The fed.gov was never legitimate, as proven by Washington declaring war on America with 13,000 troops during the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Instead, it's about time for a serious discussion of legitimate governance that would be UNABLE to infringe on natural rights.

 

[Citizen]

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CoonDog wrote:

SNIP...legitimate governance that would be UNABLE to infringe on natural rights.

I think it was John C. Calhoun that said paper is worthless against power in a constitutional context. The majority will never willingly submit to paperrestraints on their power, finding such restraints unnecessary.

I suspect it will require an ability to ignore, nulllify, or fight back after the infringement occurs.

The Federalists were all but erased after their little game of the Alien and Sedition Acts. But, the acts (the infringement) came first.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

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Government is inherently evil. It is nothing but a faction for control, and can not be controlled itself. The only way we would ever get down to the freedoms we all deserve is to simply abide by the Ten Commandments. Whether you are religious or not, these ten rules are the most basic elements of honesty and respect, and ought to be followed. Of course, that's never going to happen either. Too many people just have a need for control over others.

Just my $.02

 

[since9]

Government is inherently evil. It is nothing but a faction for control, and can not be controlled itself. The only way we would ever get down to the freedoms we all deserve is to simply abide by the Ten Commandments. Whether you are religious or not, these ten rules are the most basic elements of honesty and respect, and ought to be followed. Of course, that's never going to happen either. Too many people just have a need for control over others.

Just my $.02

I disagree with you 2 cents. Government isn't evil in and of itself. It is, however, necessary, as some people refuse to do what's right. It doesn't matter whether it's couched in religious terms, such as abiding by the Ten Commandments, or in terms of sociology, such as working towards the greater good of the community. Nor are abberent behaviors limited to humans. Alpha males exist throughout mammalian communities for a reason, and it's not limited to mating. The alpha males aren't the bullies. Rather, they're more apt to be pacifists. The will not, however, tolerate either others of their kind, or other dangerous animals, disturbing the peace.

Alpha males most certainly exercise their control over others, but it is almost always the minimum required to keep the peace.

Problems arise when wayward individuals in government cross the healthy line of keeping the peace and wade into totalitarian territory. Whether dictators like Hitler or Castro, or simply government thugs with too much power and not enough oversight, these folks abuse their positions of authority and are a blight on the society they should be serving.

Regardless, it's the people within a government, not the government itself, which can make governments seem "evil." Governments, however, are ubiquitous throughout animalia, from ants and bees to dolphins, apes, and man. Because we are significantly more complex than our animal cousins, however, our governs are similarly much more complex.

 

[dukenukum]

The difference from the government of the new testament era and the United States is We the PEOPLE are the government and politicians are hired help. As such I see no biblical conflict with the PEOPLE asserting their rights.

 

[TheQ]

The difference from the government of the new testament era and the United States is We the PEOPLE are the government and politicians are hired help.

Do you honestly believe that???