Four Men, three rifles, a woman, and a handgun (Vancouver)

[WinchesterModel12]

Wouldn't the 911 caller have the perceived danger card on there side?
What you PERCEIVE as a danger or threat may not be the same.
Who knows the RIGHT answer that covers ALL of society?
The LEO is there to have to get it RIGHT the first time and may not have the second try when it comes to weapons.
I know I would go above and beyond if I had the issue of going home alive or going to the morgue.
They did go above and beyond on this one, but every one went home.
Dave

I am expected to know every law and if I were to break 1 the LEO's would hold me accountable to that law if they knew about it.
I see the 911 caller as breaking the law by filing a false report. He should have known the law by knowing that OC is legal.

 

[SaintJacque]

I am expected to know every law and if I were to break 1 the LEO's would hold me accountable to that law if they knew about it.
I see the 911 caller as breaking the law by filing a false report. He should have known the law by knowing that OC is legal.

I don't see a problem with calling 911 to report something "odd" as I'm sure OC was to this person. However, I doubt that's what happened. Judging by the response he probably exaggerated (to be kind) to the operator. If not, then the VPD really are nuts.

 

[devildoc5]

First off mailing yourself a copy of something is considered "the poor man's copyright" In this case it would do nothing except POSSIBLY protect you from copyright infringement. The answer would be to have it notarized @ one of those "we do everything" stores and have THEM place it into a certified mail envelope that is preaddressed and them have them send it out.

Second This whole situation annoys me to no end and here is how: EVERYTHING ABOUT IT!

If a lady can get millions of dollars because McDonalds forgot to tell her her hot coffee was hot, then I am sure that someone can get a couple thousand (at least) for "irrepairable emotional damages, time lost, public humiliation and character defamation." just to name a few.

The whole thing boils down to noto nly can the OP sue (and more than likely win) the VPD but he can also sue the RP (Reporting Party) depending on what the FOIA discloses.

I know we have some really good FOIA experts on here, any try getting a copy or two of the related documents/audios yet? (sorry had to ask)

I hate to say it but I honestly believe that the BEST situation FOR ME in response to this would have been to "lawyer up" I would have been taken downtown most likely and probably would have been "detained for questioning" but wasnt the OP already detained for questioning???

I think it would have benefited more in the sense that my lawyer would have been present during the "interrogation" and would have been quicker in getting involved in this issue.

Yes I am kinda MMQBing this whole thing but this serves also as a point of reference for me to file away for possible (hopefully not though) future use.

 

[Tawnos]

First off mailing yourself a copy of something is considered "the poor man's copyright" In this case it would do nothing except POSSIBLY protect you from copyright infringement. The answer would be to have it notarized @ one of those "we do everything" stores and have THEM place it into a certified mail envelope that is preaddressed and them have them send it out.

I warned you to stay away from urban legends

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

 

[G20-IWB24/7]

The problem boils down to this:

The people who illegally detained this gentleman were Law Enforcement Officers. As has been said before, once they had established that there was no LAW to ENFORCE (probably through the drive-thru window with the manager, so it seems), they should have ceased and desisted the call, no matter what had been said to the 911 operator by the caller. No official contact with the OCer was necessary or prudent.

A couple of the people in my close circle of friends are LEO's. I would never LEO-bash, because I respect the position and the risks that they take on a daily basis. However, when the officers in question took it upon themselves to detain and inconveniece this gentleman based on something other than a genuine threat or crime, they left the "Law Enforcement" portion of their title behind.

Willful disregard of the protections provided a citizen (including the right to bear arms) is NOT a qualification of being a police officer, and should not be encouraged or tolerated. By doing nothing in this situation, it tells those officers that it is OK to trample the rights of law-abiding citizens, instead of focusing on ENFORCING the LAW, which is their title.

-G20

 

[amlevin]

Here is some interesting reading. Shows how one court views police rights to disarm, etc.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/court-upholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carrier

It would appear that the Police Officers have "rights" too.

 

[devildoc5]

I warned you to stay away from urban legends

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

I did say POSSIBLY......

The important point though is that it would be completely irrelevant in this situation....

 

[devildoc5]

Here is some interesting reading. Shows how one court views police rights to disarm, etc.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/court-upholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carrier

It would appear that the Police Officers have "rights" too.

UMM...so BASICALLY what the First court said was that a cop can do whatever he damn well pleases and too bad if it hurts or endangers you or harms you in any way shape or form??????

And just how EXACTLY is that even close to constitutional?

"I can feel the revolution coming, like a bird on the wind it rises higher everyday. Like a pheonix from the ashes this country will once again rise to it's once illustrious greatnes."

 

[69Charger]

Yea greatness.
Like no toilet paper. LOL
Can you say CORN COB.
Dave

 

[SaintJacque]

UMM...so BASICALLY what the First court said was that a cop can do whatever he damn well pleases and too bad if it hurts or endangers you or harms you in any way shape or form??????

And just how EXACTLY is that even close to constitutional?

"I can feel the revolution coming, like a bird on the wind it rises higher everyday. Like a pheonix from the ashes this country will once again rise to it's once illustrious greatnes."

Sometimes courts say funny things. Something tells me this was/will be overturned with some enthusiasm. My natural/constitutional rights don't disappear just because a judge has a hard on for an officer.

 

[BigDave]

One of the biggest issues at hand here, is what the 911 caller told the police.

If the caller did make up a situation that they were in fear for their life and Police responded in kind, can you blame them?
If your kid came running in and said a man outside was pointing a gun at them and you run out there with yours and find later it was a water gun, is it also your fault for over reacting or were you just reacting on the information you felt was creditable and accurate.
Until such time they could determine he was not a threat they would have to take steps not only to protect themselves but those in the restaurant.

Now we have those jump on their pulpit when little information is really known about the incident.
File an FOIA Request for the call and information relating to the call and then form an opinion and go from there.

As to the get together, do call and invite the Chief, my experience with some officers versus the Chief, have two totally different views that have not made it to line officers.

As to splitting up and running in town trying to get numerous responses, careful on what you wish for, usually it will not turn out the way you want it to.

 

[BigDave]

As to mailing yourself documents and left sealed can and will show you knew the information at that point in time.
This is good if you find yourself in a trial and wanting to have your previous training admitted in evidence thus knowing what you knew at that point in time.

In this case I see no benefit.

 

[Trigger Dr]

Might I recommend getting it notarized instead?

What good does mailing to yourself do? (hint: be on the watch for urban legends)

No urban ledgend connected with this. Just a positive reminder as to when sent and delivered.

 

[gogodawgs]

I thought the Sheriff had oversight of the County Police. Vancouver is within Clark County. I could be wrong...

Nope. They are independent of each other concerning oversight.

The sheriff, GaryLucas, reports directly to the citizens of Clark County. Gary Lucas is an elected official. He is a fine sheriff and him and his deputies know that OC is legal. I have several friends that are deputies and they roll their eyes when I talk about VPD.

 

[gogodawgs]

Do what TriggerDr said.

Also, request the 911 recordings and the police reports from this incident. Also, if you can get the video from the restruant showing you were eating.

Then we all need to work to get a training bulleting done for Vancouver. Get in touch with Gray Peterson. (I am going to PM a link to this thread)

This CAN NOT stand! They violated your rights (2nd, 4th, 5th)! This must stop.

I will be carrying sterile (for the first time) at the Vancouver BBQ.

 

[gogodawgs]

while violating just about every right guaranteed by the US Constitution and the Washington State Constitution!

I am so going to the Vancouver picnic now!

Has anybody invited the police to the picnic, on a social basis only?

Yes, I have friends that are CCSO and at least one will be in attendance. He will be there as a civilian. He is so down to earth that even though he is a CCSO deputy he has his WA CPL!

 

[gogodawgs]

Yes!

Do this, if you need any assistence PM me. However, it is very easy. FOIA requests are quite informal. Simply, in writing, send the request with as much information as you have. Date, time, place, officers, etc...

Send a copy to the VPD, the 911 comission, and to the Sheriff. (Even though they do not have oversight they are still obligated to respond) (When I sent my FOI for the Kirby case only the Sheriff included the pictures, the VPD did not)

Since the police indicated that they were filing a report, shouldn't you be able to request a copy of this along with the 911 call via the FOIA?

 

[gogodawgs]

Wouldn't the 911 caller have the perceived danger card on there side? NO!
What you PERCEIVE as a danger or threat may not be the same.
Who knows the RIGHT answer that covers ALL of society?
The LEO is there to have to get it RIGHT the first time and may not have the second try when it comes to weapons.
I know I would go above and beyond if I had the issue of going home alive or going to the morgue.
They did go above and beyond on this one, but every one went home.
Dave

No Dave. The 911 operators are trained to ask questions and stay on the line. Have you listened to the Kirby 911 recording HERE

No threat of a holstered handgun absent a crime afoot. The damn Supreme Court has said so, the WA SC has said so, enough with the ignorance.

 

[gogodawgs]

I warned you to stay away from urban legends

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

This has NOTHING to do with copyright!

This has to do with knowing information at a certain time and date.

(Somebody was a judge and knows this information can be usefull)

 

[gogodawgs]

As to mailing yourself documents and left sealed can and will show you knew the information at that point in time.
This is good if you find yourself in a trial and wanting to have your previous training admitted in evidence thus knowing what you knew at that point in time.

In this case I see no benefit.

Do you see any harm? Since none of us can look into the future, I would say this is an inexpensive way to preserve the information. I will buy the friggin stamp.